I think its "VERY" productive than I tell the people, what they don´t read on bearshare.net!

Yes I think it is because there are always two sides - I want fair play and not more Limewire/bearshare clients which don´t care about the user or other clients!

Yes this is "MY" intention! I want one community - not three seperated communities... but the first step is working together and "fair play", I really don´t see fair play from bearshare or Limewire I see only more spyware, hiring more developers and than praying how good they are! This can do "EVERY" developer, but the most of them are fair and want only to code a good client!

Morgwen

__________________
patience is a virtue

Go outside and hang at the park and talk to people, get a real life. Is there something wrong with the area you live in?

When you want to be #1 and dominate the gnutella world, then your attitude changes to one of doing anything you can to provide your users with downloads, cause all they want to do is suck the net and the #1 clients sucks the best.
No regard to whatthey will do to the net in the long term, or what bandwidth they suck as long as the $$$ flow in.

gnutella is not about ONE client, it is about all clients, one cleint should not be #1

Hi,

I come with an appology and a goodbye.

First I would like to apology for my behaviour of crying out my fears
instead of searching for a diplomatic conversation. Sorry, my post/email
was a "cryout" of some upcoming problems and collected opinions from
the gnutella development community.

It's also a "goodbye" because I withdraw dissapointed from Gnutella
development. Your answers (those from other developers) did
confirm my feelings.

Well, my very personal point of view is that current Gnutella
development has a lack of documentation and structures attracting
more coders and network/protocol specialists. As a matter of fact
development is slow, chaotic for newcomers. In the past I tried to
help and work out solutions. But I see less improvement and I'm not
willing to spend my time anymore while vendors (BS and perhaps also
LW) turning Gnutella into a single/few vendors network where servents
and decisions are not equal and not for the sake of a common
community. For example, clumping together clients of a single vendor
and infecting hundreds and thousands of newbie users with persistant
spyware ... that's not my idea of Gnutella!

Actually I don't want you to stop to cooperate with BS/LW. I wanted
to wake up some developers and make them think about how things are
done today and if you are satisfied? What I don't want is to hold you
back from productivity, improvememts and working together on
Gnutella. To be fair, LW does contribute valueable ideas and papers,
yeah!
I can speak only about me, I do not feel comfortable how things are
done generally, e.g. the take-this-or-die behaviour. But it seems on
the GDF everyone is pretty lucky whith each other. Are you suprised
if more ppl do not want to be part of the GDF?

I would like to suggest to work on a well defined protocol
documentation (RFC), free of proprietray interests. Market shares and
marketing should not be allowed to influence an open protocol design,
because such descisions are contraproductive in a long term. It would
be great to see in a few months Gnutella having superpeers, dynamic
traffic routing, hashs, metadata, chat and (friendly) anti-freeloading
behaviour. FastTrack and eDonkey are still a great source of
inspiration IMHO. However, thx for the fun and the possibility of
learning about P2P.

Greets and good luck with your work, Moak

PS: If someone would like to communicate about alternatives, how
about meeting on friday afternoon/night (23:00 GMT/UTC, 17:00 CST) on
IRC #gnutelladev on IRCnet? A description is available on
http://www.gnutellaforums.com and usually some known faces are
arround.

Moak, use your talents to help us all get rid of the commercial interests and greed on gnutella. Don't give up now!
Post code and patches that don't contribute to their clients.
Make your own client that helps people move away from those clusters. Post code that helps other clients move away from clustering.
Vinnie thinks he can do this, but he doesn't understand we code way better than he does.
And think about that, it's mostly vinnie doing this, he always does this and has been trying to do this since day one.
We got a lucky break when morph made a open source client #1, vinnie can now go suck eggs.
We all used to have to walk on egg shells around him because if he did something nasty (like clustering) we would all be affected by it. NO MORE!
We are just about free of vinnie and the like!
Start your own documentation center and make it the best. RAM is doing a crappy job with his documentation project, please start one and run it for us we need it and someone who cares about docs.
Also remember the small developer doesn't have the time or resources to add all these new protocol ideas all the time so they will pick the best and go with it. It can take a small developer more then 6 months to get something working.
If generic TESTED source code was always available that anyone could use and just plug into their client, and not just some proposal on paper that would help. If the people making proposals would do the work and find out how hard it is to code this stuff, maybe more real gnutella features would be added.
Use your talent to create these proposals with source code.
Sourceforge is free and will host your projects, go check it out.

First, I would like to point out they irony and hypocracy of the people that are against clustering and servent blocking are writing code to drop clients and block then from downloading. Note, I havent seen code to prevent uploading from these clients (you leeches).

Moak, if you want change make it. Not by bashing the other clients but by providing something better. Organize the group of people here that are so frustrated with gnutella to do something besides ***** about it. Write a new client or help with an existing one like gnucleus.

Yes, the GDF can be frustrating, but its all there is right now. If you want something better quite demanding that others give it to you and DO IT YOURSELF!!!

hi... all of the work should not be put in the hands of one person, if you feel the same way chime in! Part of the problem here is that people dont help each other this is a comunity and please dont try to push it off on another person.

Im not trying to push anything on anyone. Personaly I love how well things are coming with gnutella. Downloads are finally working, searches are great, ect.

All I am saying is that if you dont like what is going on actually do something besides complain. Help with the documentation or help with a client. If you dont like spyware use a different client. Gnucleus is a great open source client.

Do you know what we are doing besides complaining?

If "NOT" don´t tell us what we have to do!

Morgwen

P.S.:

What do you do besides complaining?

__________________
patience is a virtue

Gnutellafan, it's easy to judge about other and give advices, but what have you done? Somtimes it's better to leave the old path and start something new and better.

Yes we are planing a NEW protocol!

Morgwen

__________________
patience is a virtue

No, no - write a program that rips the spyware out of your favorite client! Now that's using your talent!
NOPs are so fun.

Someone mentioned that KaZaa pays $4000/mo. for a license, then asked where they come up with that kind of money.

helllloooo. wake UP.
if a FastTrack license was only $4K/Mo. everyone and their dog would be running a fasttrack client.

"where do they get that kind of money?"
do you have any idea how much each user is worth? Let's take the old Morpheus for an example- they didn't even bundle "spyware"- they only displayed banner ads.
I've read that morpheus of old served over 6Billion ad impressions to date. Ok. They can sell those impressions for at least 50 cents/thousand. You do the math.

thats million$ right there. KaZaa gets about 15-25 cents for every user that installs them and their spyware (I'm in the industry, I know btw). Think about that over 20 million or so users.

$4000 a month? You've got to be joking. You can make $4K a month on the Net with about 1/100th of the users KaZaa pulls in.
KaZaa makes more like $4 Million a month.

sheesh

We are talking about Gnutella not fasttrack! Gnutella is open and free, you don´t need to pay for it!

Morgwen

__________________
patience is a virtue

So take Gnucleus source code, munge it around a bit so no one knows that you are using it, compile the exe file and start your own network. Never ever give out the source code so no one knows where you got it from, sort of like BearShare does.
I would be happy with $200 a month.
Anyone want to advertise on my new network?