he changes his opinion in every post.....

Hey Sephiroth...

you should talk with people who see the reality and not with Vinnie...

Than you don´t write such a crap anymore...

Morgwen

Open Source has its place.
There are several layers to improving Gnutella. When the standard functions are Open Source, everyone would benefit by having optimal code. Everyone is the winner. The softwar needs to be modular so that if one company has a commercial offering, that there are hooks to provide extra services, services like crypto, authentication, XML for a particular type of information, preferring NEARBY copies in stead of far away copies..

Point is you make money on services provided not on services that everybody requires. When one Gnutella client is inefficient, everyone suffers. When the basic code is open and everyone contributes to modular code, service / servers are sold to legitimate users. Because serious money can be saved by having efficient P-P functionality (Intel is one company who understands that..)

One issue might be the License; it would need to be a license that allows for commercial use. (Your point) Mozilla with their three licensing scheme is one example of how this can be done

Thanks,
have fun
Gerard

Yo dude, Sephiroth, completly ignoring reality now?

The best Gnutella clients are _not_ commercial, even I wonder which programs you're talking about: Most famous are Xolox, Phex, Limewire, Gnotella yet. For example Bearshare and Swapnut (the only proprietary clients) play a minor role (and with a lack of a serious business models they are financed by spyware plus some adds to pay the website AFAIK). No unknown commercial programs did push forward or develop Gnutella. To tell you the truth: the origin of Gnutella is uncommercial (Justin@Nullsoft) and all later developers did envolve the idea of Gnutella together. Gnutelliums names 15 different clients, you'll find more on sourceforge.

Actually the most energy came from a free developers community: for example Ex-Clip2 with their documentation or their Reflector (the first supernode), Limewire (OpenSource) does a huge amount of research, Phex has implemented some new features (OpenSource too), the_GDF together did envolve many ideas (slow but they do constantly) and especially the individuals of Xolox which did adapted some of FastTrack/eDonkey ideas (Xolox is no commercial product too).

It seems you completly deny the role of open source for Gnutella or IT development in general, what about Linux, GNU, BSD, apache, squid, samba, Gnome, KDE, etc? Some meaningless side effects that were build on commmercial products? Denying reality? You brought up the idea of open source for the survive of Gnutella, now you don't like it? I also wonder how should a commercial gnutella developer survive... currently there isn't one company with a working Gnutella business model! Isn't a Gnutella company an imagination, just a dream? It's ridiculous saying a company is responsible for Gnutellas development, commercial proprietary programs are a minor part of Gnutella development since the beginning.

Without a free developer community Gnutella would be _far_ behind! Actually Gnutella is far behind other P2P technologies like FastTrack and eDonkey... the most important thing is a strong and cooperative developer community now (no more propaganda, no more aggresive marketing).

Reducing this post to one sentence:
Let's have some fun and push gnutella forward

I didnt say all open source is bad i even said that its important to have it but it shouldnt be the only type of program. I posted it thinking more along the lines of the program itself being open/closed source and didnt think about the protocol.

The only person to make any sense at all is gerardm. Which i agree with in that it is important to have coorporation and a kind of community effort to develop the critical standard services. But it shouldnt be like that for every aspect of program which is that moak impiled which i didnt get into this in depth before becuase felt i didnt have too. Looks like i was wrong.. So im not going to respond to the majority of moaks reply nor morgwens assumptions or anything about his "reality."

Now on nullsoft releaseing gnutella to be an open network. Thats not how it happened. Nullsoft's effort to create gnutella was commerical. Nullsoft had no intention of releaseing gnutella open protocol. In fact nullsoft didnt release it at all, someone on the inside leaked it out. They only did that because AOL was going to shut it down and gnutella would have never seen the light of day. Their only choice was either leak it or no gnutella ever.

running out of arguments? strange Nullsoft theory.

Well, I read there is some agreement

Yes there is a need for cooperation. This must be on a shared code basis. Standard functions can be the best. If one group decides that a certain function is to be proprietary, and it fits in in the way of plugins/module or whatever fine When another group decides that the "universal" client needs that function everywhere, it only needs a OS version that connects in the same way.

Point is licensing, copyright.

You guys are no lawyers. Neither am I. But to get to the same codebase for the client, you need to think about it.

Open Source authors have currently the right to post the same code under a different license as well. Given the huge amount of clients there is plenty code to start with.

If you want your Gnutella business to survive, make your business a legitimate business. Think technology, Think on how you make money with P-P. Work that in your commercial offerings. You will find that the client will also need work to enable that. So you will NOT stop developping the client. Everyone (interested in Gnutella) will win. And a RIAA/et al will have a problem with you as a target because
* The user is responsible in analogy with a car a gun.
* You as a business aim to make money on a legitimate offering
* Improvements that are clearly to enhance the "illegal" use, are done by a "anonymous" Open Source Community. AND those improvement can be in the form of a plugin/module whatever..

Thanks,
have fun
Gerard

Yep, I hope we find a cooperative developer community.
Please speak up if you have some ideas to protect Gnutella!

OT: Sephiroth, if you come with helpfull ideas I will be glad to see you again. Meanwhile please no more Bearshare VIP propaganda here.

Well, decide what you want. if you want a COMMUNITY. You do not tell people to ... whatever. You want to be inclusive. Together you are part of the solution

Be constructive, think of which client has the best prospects to be the all inclusive client. Look for Bearshare functionality that is cool to include.

TOGETHER means that you bridge distances not create new ones..



Thanks,
have fun
Gerard

Many words without sense...

Morgwen

Morgwen

No trolls! Please follow the P2P community some time, before inviting and including more well known trolls as Sephiroth, Kultus or telling about cooperation with Vinnie! Theese guys have a long history for unfriendly behaviour, a non-cooperation-politics and slowing down everything that is not Bearshare. Everyone is invited, everyone with helpfull ideas.

I vote for cooperation too. If every Gnutella client wants to make his own way then we will begin to have compatibility problems, and a serious risk of fragmentation of the Gnutella Network.

Ivan
"In the dark we make a brighter light"

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