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  #1 (permalink)  
Old June 30th, 2002
Unregistered
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Posts: n/a
Default File pass through, and no one paid any attention

For all of you who didn't pay any attention and poo poo'ed the idea of file pass through

"I'm publishing this in response to the closing of Audiogalaxy and the imminent closure of many net radio stations. This can't be closed. I never did like bullies.

Streamer is an internet radio program that allows anyone to broadcast streaming mp3 music, to an unlimited number of listeners, from an internet connection as humble as a 56k modem, and with the broadcasting pc being fairly untraceable.

It works by relaying the mp3 data stream from one listener to the next, forming a branching tree with the broadcasting pc at the base.
This is different to the normal method where all the listeners connect to a central server, and it means you don't need lots of server bandwidth. There is also no limit to the number of listeners, since each new one provides more relay bandwidth to the network.

It's also fairly untraceable because each streamer 'host' doesn't reveal any information about whether it is actually the transmitter or
not, or where it is getting it's signal from. And I plan to make it completely untraceable for broadcasters who wish.

This is a beta version, work in progress. There's no clever network optimisation yet, or stuff to handle when listeners leave without disconnecting other downstream listeners. You are likely to get disconnections for large audiences. It definitely works ok for half a dozen or so people though, all using 56k modems. Enough to play your tunes to your mates :-) "

http://www.chaotica.u**********/page/streamer.htm
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old June 30th, 2002
ursula's Avatar
Cleaning Lady
 
Join Date: May 17th, 2002
Location: koyaanisqatsi
Posts: 2,334
ursula is a great assister to others; your light through the dark tunnel
Default

Junior and His Amazing All-Electric Whizz-Bang Relay Toy Rides Again...
Give it a rest. The fundaments of your proposal are wrong, as many here have tried to explain to you.
Perhaps a more careful examination of some of the rebuttals you have received...???
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old June 30th, 2002
Unregistered
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by ursula
Junior and His Amazing All-Electric Whizz-Bang Relay Toy Rides Again...
WHOOOO HOOOOO!!

Ride 'em cowboy!
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old June 30th, 2002
ursula's Avatar
Cleaning Lady
 
Join Date: May 17th, 2002
Location: koyaanisqatsi
Posts: 2,334
ursula is a great assister to others; your light through the dark tunnel
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
WHOOOO HOOOOO!!

Ride 'em cowboy!
There now, you see ????
We can agree with one another !!!
Isn't that nice?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old June 30th, 2002
BearShare Developer
 
Join Date: May 25th, 2001
Posts: 163
Vinnie is flying high
Default Umm

Ursula are you saying his application doesn't work?

From the description on the page, it looked like a decent scheme. I especially like the radio station discovery mechanism.

On the other hand, I didn't actually try it - what's the deal?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old June 30th, 2002
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: August 9th, 2001
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 358
cultiv8r is flying high
Default

if anyone has ever downloaded and used "Radio Free Virgin" (a free Internet radio app from Virgin Records), you know that they use the same technology. By default, listeners also act as "relay" stations for other listeners, to help keep the bandwidth requirements low at Virgin's own servers. They've been doing that over 2 years by now, and with some mods, it would also work with Gnutella.

HOWEVER. This is not the same as what Unregistered (don't know if the Unregistered poster is the same one) suggested before, regarding "anonymous" file sharing by utilizing download pipes. Why not? This is relay streaming is trackable - in fact, it must be trackable in order to keep the stream quality up.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2002
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Altnet - AKA Kazaa's hidden CPU cycle taker uses PASS THROUGH !
And it's legal, and it makes the network look MORE LEGIT !!
Make your client more legit today !

"The big record labels and movie studios are suing many of the most popular file-swapping companies, hoping to put them out of business. But Altnet's work within the Kazaa network could show that the file-swapping system has a legitimate business use--an argument that could lead a court to say the network is perfectly legal."
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-917348.html
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2002
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Another thing that makes this legal is that a user can become like a ISP, just passing packets.
ISP's have not been held liable for content they "pass through" because they are just like the phone company and just supply a means to pass packet data.
So who's to say a user can't become a mini ISP?
Where does your ISP stop? What if your part of the ISPs system includes passing packets when you get a "signal" from your ISPs TCP/IP sent packet?
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2002
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: August 9th, 2001
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 358
cultiv8r is flying high
Default

Quote:
Altnet - AKA Kazaa's hidden CPU cycle taker uses PASS THROUGH !
And it's legal, and it makes the network look MORE LEGIT !!
Make your client more legit today !
"Bermeister said the company had been testing the technology along with ad giants DoubleClick as a way to serve ordinary Web ads more quickly. Under this plan, an ad that a person sees on a Web site might be hosted by a nearby computer running Brilliant's Altnet instead of on a central ad server, as now typically happens with DoubleClick. "

Cool. Faster X10 popup ads
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2002
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: August 9th, 2001
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 358
cultiv8r is flying high
Default

Quote:
ISP's have not been held liable for content they "pass through" because they are just like the phone company and just supply a means to pass packet data.
Here's someting to consider about the pasthrough and "acting as ISP" idea:

When is an ISP liable for the acts of its subcribers?

Specifically, it lists these requirements where an ISP is not liable for the actions of it subscribers under the DMCA:
  • the ISP must not obtain financial benefit from the infringement
  • the ISP must not have actual knowledge or awareness of facts indicating infringing transmissions, and
  • upon learning of an infringing transmission, the ISP must act quickly to remove or disable access to the infringing transmission

That's why ISPs will block certain users using P2P applications, but also the reason why the "acting as an ISP" reasoning won't get you far, especially now since you made it public knowledge by posting that idea here

Last edited by cultiv8r; July 1st, 2002 at 11:07 AM.
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