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-   -   Will it be or is Limewire a bad program for Torrents ?!!? Why? (http://www.gnutellaforums.com/general-p2p-network-discussion/58601-will-limewire-bad-program-torrents-why.html)

stief July 13th, 2006 09:15 PM

Will it be good or is Limewire a bad program for Torrents ?!!? Why?
 
Torrents are on for the next LW release. See http://www.limewire.org/blog/?p=133 for a taste of the politics involved, and http://www.limewire.org/blog/?p=146 for the design issues.

Sleepless July 14th, 2006 01:41 PM

Limewire bad program for Torrents !!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stief
Torrents are on for the next LW release. See http://www.limewire.org/blog/?p=133 for a taste of the politics involved, and http://www.limewire.org/blog/?p=146 for the design issues.

I must say what they are trying to I don't like one bit. Even if they warn a user that a download will stop if they kill an upload, they will be able to kill it after download has completed (correct me if I'm wrong).

They only way to stop leeching is to implement the share ratio in to the program. Like say anything under a 1/1 is totally unacceptable and will disable torrentprotocol.

We all know that most home broadbandservices have much faster download than upload. A user might be downloading three 4 GB+ files at a time. While he is downloading these files, he's uploading lets say 1 GB. After the downloads finish he then removes the files from his shares meaning he is leeching 3 GB

BTW this should also partly apply to the Gnutella network as well because this is what is going on with many users. I understand very well that torrentsites dislike the idea that Limewire will be able to download torrents. If this is really what they're going to do then every torrentprogram on earth will be releasing a new version that will block ALL Limewire users from connecting to their program. Some allready block bittorentprograms that have the option of DHT connection because of a slight chance that advanced users find a way around the shareratio and just leech.

Where would be a good place to start a discusion about this that the developers actually see ?

Lord of the Rings July 14th, 2006 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepless
Where would be a good place to start a discusion about this that the developers actually see ?

General P2P Network Discussion

I know what you mean & mostly agree. But what about people like myself who don't have great upload capacities. If such a person could only download a multi-GB file at 5-7 KB/s then it would keep that slot busy for a long, long time! :D

But I was concerned about the same thing for the general communities as I read through the details yesterday. And what about LW's Gnutella sharing whilst using bittorrents which was an obvious point made.

My thoughts would be to put a limit on upload abilities in both worlds. ie: a minimum upload capacity of a reasonable amount before both protocols could be used at the same time. eg: 5 or 10 KB/s (perhaps per slot)

Shareaza, whilst a good program, is a good example of where being in more than one p2p world at the same time doesn't work very well if certain measures aren't taken. Raza is thought of as a freeloader by some people, due to the minimal downld speeds you can get from them in most cases. Whilst I say that, raza is the only other pc app I have some appreciation of thru experience. But it does have those suggested draw backs which I think LW could design around. Pity raza proggies have such a weak attitude toward gnutella 1.

Sleepless July 14th, 2006 04:53 PM

Having an option for the longest time doesn't make it right. Raza is no good anyway and I'm sure they have less succes getting torrents than other torrentprograms. Using BitComet a pretty popular file 700 MB took me 1 hour 40 minutes :)

And I'm not even on a private tracker

I understand your concern LOTR but it is still very possible to keep a 1/1 ratio. I did not in any way mean that you would only get the same speed downloading as you were uploading. I meant that if let's say 5 torrents were downloaded maybe 4 GB in all then the user would get a message saying that leeching is not allowed and no more torrents until ratio is back up to 1/1 (4 GB up only torrentfiles) same should be implemented for the Gnutella network with maybe 100 downloads because of size difference. The reason (I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed) that Limewire is slowly going downhill is because a bigger and bigger portion of the users are nothing but slimy freeloading leeches.

I look carefully at share ratio when using bittorrent. I do not clear a download until I have uploaded at least the same amount that I have downloaded. I do this by both downloading and uploading during my flatrate hours and then only seeding 2/3 of the day This gets me close to a 1/1 ratio. If I don't have something to download I still seed during my flatrate hours getting me over the 1/1 ratio.

BTW LOTR you're more than welcome to copy the portion of the thread dealing with this issue to "General P2P Network Discussion"

(edit: Thanks. That was fast :D)

Lord of the Rings July 14th, 2006 07:25 PM

Is Limewire bad program for Torrents?
 
Well? BTW Stief was not the originator of this thread. lol :D Sleepless was but this section has been saved for the public

stief July 16th, 2006 05:45 PM

I dislike polls, can't understand the thread topic, and don't like this thread.

Hmmm--what to do, what to do.

Sleepless July 16th, 2006 07:22 PM

I think this thread is very relevant. Don't really know what to say about the poll. Guess it all depends whether they implement the shareratio in the program. There are too many leeches on the network and many of them do not have the capabilities to use torrentprograms thus Limewire will be giving them the option of leeching of torrents as well as the Gnutellanetwork. I think this will be a real shame.

This torrentscenario that they are planning is far from perfect. I tried Azureus now and it even has a shareratio warning light. It also informs users that downloadspeeds will suffer from a bad shareratio. I think that the Limewire developers should learn from that and implement something similar into the Core where it's not easily bypassed.

I'm voting yes on this issue. If there are changes made for the better that yes can be ignored

ukbobboy01 July 17th, 2006 12:29 PM

Hi Sleepless

I just bounce over from the other thread entitled "Tired Of One-Way File-Sharing" started by KK and I will give some thought now to your suggestion of enabling LWs "chat" facility, as you said, I don't have to use it.

Anyway, I am here to discuss the issue of greater freeloading if Torrent facilities are incorporated into LimeWire.

Well first off, I am all for anything which gives LW greater sharing capabilities because I have felt for some time now that the pool of available files for sharing has been gradually shrinking. And anything or facility that allows more files into our constantly shrinking pool has got to be good.

However, I agree that allowing more people access to our pool without insuring that they are putting something back has got to be detrimental to the P2P community as a whole. Therefore, may I suggest that widening the user base of the P2P community should go hand in hand with tightening up the “anti-freeloading” facility within LimeWire.

That way “you cannot come to the party unless you bring a bottle” (I hope that is a term that most non-English speaking forum members are familiar with).



UK Bob

AaronWalkhouse July 17th, 2006 05:56 PM

Dangerous idea. The MAFIAA always interprets that as an inducement to piracy
and new users tend to be put off by what appears to be selfish barriers to entry.

Gnutella is a sharing network, unlike the trading networks like BT, DC
and others. The reason it is so successful is it doesn't attempt to force
people to conform to a tit-for-tat trading model, and that's why all of the
gnutella developers reject such measures as ratios and inducements.

The pool of available files is still growing but if you sit still on your particular
favourites you eventually see nothing new and see some of your favourites fade
away. The trick is to keep exploring and moving to other shelves in the library.

barbarian2 July 18th, 2006 01:47 AM

Personally speaking, my original experience of file sharing was with Shareaza - I started using LW also because I do quite often want individual files rather than torrents and (mostly at least) LW is excellent in this respect.

I also notice that LW members are very very keen in uploading my torrents - and they're very welcome to do so. If it is feasible to incorporate bittorrents into LW without detracting from it's current excellent function, then well and good - otherwise, why not use Shareaza for this?? Can't really see a problem with getting the best of both worlds in this way.

BTW EVERYBODY STARTS AS A FREELOADER.


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