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  #21 (permalink)  
Old June 23rd, 2005
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I do have some ideas which I'll present in a write up soon. It isn't too hard to catch the most egregious spammers.

Will I get one of your generous bounties if you end up implementing the system?

Thanks!
Susheel
  #22 (permalink)  
Old June 23rd, 2005
zab zab is offline
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Um, no, the bounties are for actually implementing the proposed feature. Complete with [working & non copy/pasted]^ unit tests*

Keep in mind that whatever scheme you have in mind it will be all open source, so I see a little point in hiding it.

* the punchline

^ the better punchline

Last edited by sberlin; June 23rd, 2005 at 05:25 AM.
  #23 (permalink)  
Old June 23rd, 2005
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I was kidding about the bounty. Of course any code submitted would be open source. Besides being bound by the terms of the GPL, I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm a firm believer in open source and open protocols, even it if means people utilize or develop features you don't like. Let freedom ring!
  #24 (permalink)  
Old June 23rd, 2005
Freedom
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*ring*
  #25 (permalink)  
Old June 24th, 2005
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Quote:
Originally posted by Freedom
*ring*
lol, that funny as hell^

sdaswani, you seem to be the only one complaining on this issue. NO user wants this, and if i continue to receive these, im going to patch limewire to block this specific client from connecting or sending me results at all. i paid for limewire pro already, so their is no reason in hell i should be getting sponsored results. and no, i cant opt-out of your decision that you forced me into without blocking legitiment lots of content that i want. and it seems that you say

Quote:
Originally posted by sdaswani
In addition to being anti-competitive, excising the feature is reactionary.

1) You have no evidence that spammers are using it.
well, i am an eye-witness to it, and i will provide evidence if its needed. btw, have you seen the definition of spam lately, i have checked, and it says quote: To indiscriminately send unsolicited, unwanted, irrelevant, or inappropriate messages, especially commercial advertising in mass quantities. Noun: electronic "junk mail".
from: http://northnet.net/~midwest/0gloss.htm
Quote:
Originally posted by sdaswani
2) You are throwing out current *legitimate* (paying artists!) uses to guard against the potential of illegitimate uses. Perhaps you've heard of the substantial noninfringing use doctrine and the reasoning that underlies it? The feature is content agnostic and should not be excised simply because it can be used for bad ends.
[/B]
actually, i have been using gnet for awhile now and havent seen anyone take use of this feature BUT spam.
Quote:
Originally posted by sdaswani
3) Spam can be detected in other ways such that honest uses of the html launch can be allowed to continue.
[/B]
see point 2. also, if we can get to the source of the problem, and fix this exploit of a feature that is not used, then we can get back to fixing other things.


you are defending something noone likes or cares about, you are defending annoying ads that noone wants to see, you are defending something that noone willl ever like, if you are defending something like that, then you are guilty of it also.
.....
Quote:
Originally posted by sdaswani
I don't agree that LimeWire should make the decision about what is offered to users though - doesn't that get away from the ideals of decentralization and openness?
[/B]
why? its their software they are creating. and since i pay for this software, i should have a voice. limewire only creates what the public and MAJORITY of what people want. this isnt anarchy brother.

Quote:
Originally posted by sdaswani
Zlatin, our sponsored results are very upfront. They are clearly marked as "(Sponsored Results)" so users can ignore them like they do for Google AdWords.
[/B]
sponsored by who? i dont remember agreeing with this, and since your client is not a majority gnutella holder, you have a small voice when it comes to that stuff. we dont make deals with terrosists. im not paying you to send me something i dont want. and i believe i speak for everyone on this.
Quote:
Originally posted by sdaswani
If security is your concern, then the best option is to display a warning. You do the same for .exe files.
[/B]
Limewire wont open exe files.
Quote:
Originally posted by sdaswani
If spam is your concern, then excising the feature doesn't stop the spam. Users are already spammed by fake files, mislabeled results, etc., and I'm sure other spamming opportunities exist. Excising the html launch feature does not preclude spammers from sending bogus results.
[/B]
no, but it stops you. 1 down, ~1,000,000 to go. a journey of a thousand miles starts with one step.

Quote:
Originally posted by sdaswani
...anti-competitive and monopolistic...
[/B]
companys dont become a monopoly unless the public makes it a monopoly, people like microsoft, so they pay them to be a monopoly (even though i personally dont like them). limewire has a monopoly, and it wasnt by accident. limewire has the trust of the public, so in order to keep this majority rule, then you have to keep giving the people what they want.

keep telling lies, and you become a lier, keep telling the truth and you become trusted.
  #26 (permalink)  
Old June 24th, 2005
I_Have_No_Account
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I don't think "sponsored results" are bad per se. However, I don't see a reason to use the Gnutella infrastructure for this. I suggest you implement this as a opt-in feature and use a few dedicated servers for this. You could use some kind of QRP to ensure that those servers see only results that would match - to reduce the load on those and to prevent spying on users.

You could even use a cluster of ultrapeers and handle this in a similar way as "locale preferences" are used by LimeWire. I recommend to refrain to utilize the common Gnutella network for such advertising. Spam is a fuzzy term but many people would certainly regard it as such. I definitely consider Google Adsense as spam - in many cases. You as LimeWire should know very well how much damage this (along with domain squatting) causes to you and your reputation.
  #27 (permalink)  
Old June 24th, 2005
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Quote:
Originally posted by I_Have_No_Account
I don't see a vulnerability either.
i guess you are one naive user. have you ever bothered to read up on the dangers of that kind of stuff? http://cve.mitre.org/

also, you are saying they are not bad... to me, that is an error, they are just helping to muddy the water for other people that want REAL content, not ads. im not going to pay for THEIR (gnoozle users) application by viewing THEIR (gnoozle) ads when im using ANOTHER companies (limewire) agent.

evidence? a picture is worth a thousand words..

they are also making their searches appear more prominent by lying about the alt-loc's


  #28 (permalink)  
Old June 25th, 2005
I_Have_No_Account
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I'm not only naive, I'm straight fvcking dull. Yay!

Your first post wasn't very clear to me. I'm not affiliated with LimeWire nor am I a frequent user of LimeWire.

To be honest, while this "feature" makes things easier you can easily cause almost the same effects without it. You can also easily filter those out which is much more difficult when confronted with a real spammer. What's worse is that the results interfere with dynamic querying whether you want them or not.

Regarding your payments: Well, Gnutella is an open network and by using it you'll use resources of people you didn't pay and you'll "donate" resources to people other than LimeWire or their users anyway.

Unlike real scammers and spammers, these sponsored results also seem to be legit and licensed. Real P2P scammers and spammers usually sell pirated contents directly or indirectly.

Claiming that they spam alt-locs isn't fair either. That's just a way to distribute load on their servers but I'd expect that there are better ways (e.g., a DNS record with multiple IP addresses) to achieve the same. It's rather a flaw of LimeWire to rank these higher (or maybe yours as you insist on this sort order) because this completely ignores the fact that any single source may know of further sources through the download mesh.
  #29 (permalink)  
Old June 25th, 2005
zab zab is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ultracross

they are also making their searches appear more prominent by lying about the alt-loc's
If these screenshots are genuine it means we're dealing with the same type of deplorable spammers we've had for ages. I regret my attempts at civilized discussion earlier in the thread.
  #30 (permalink)  
Old June 25th, 2005
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Sorry I don't have time for full reply but here are a few comments:

1) alt-locs: sorry if they seem inflated. i put that code in there to demonstrate to our clients what their result will look like with a farm of servers running. i will take out that code tomorrow. that said, i'm also increasing the amount of servers we have running. more on that next....

2) users LIKE our results. we have statistics showing that. why? because as someone said above, our results are targeted. search for new order, you get results related to new order. i don't see what is wrong with offering legitimate, related content to users. i thought this was an open network?

zab, what happened to "[w]e believe in open standards, open networks"?
 

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