The BearShare BlackHole Test

#1 (**permalink**) March 15th, 2002

Don't get sucked into the BearShare BlackHole!

Here's what I did:
Using Gnucleus I noticed that whenever I connected to a BearShare node after a while all I had was connections to BearShare.
I took the code posted to the Gnucleus forum that blocks a client by name and blocked BearShare. Now I waited for the other "clustering" client, LimeWire to connect. I got one!
Wait, wait, wait.... nothing. Still connected to one LW and some others. Some others dropped off, got some that don't give a name, and one other LW showed up after a little bit but it dropped off after a little while.
After many tests it seems that LW doesn't try to "suck" you in as bad.
Then I added code so I could see how I get sucked into the BearShare BlackHole by printing every connection attempt.
BearShare shamelessly hammers me with incoming node connections till I "submit" and connect to only other BearShare$, then magically quits doing that after it gets what it wants!
I ran this test several times, even after clearing my cache and connecting to only "other" clients for a while, all it takes is one BS connection and it's BlackHole time!
Eventually my cache filled up with BearShare IPs mostly. Isn't that nice?

Is this what you call "clustering" or is it "domination" ?

Try it for yourself, it's fun!

MtDewJunkE · #2 (**permalink**) March 15th, 2002

Could you post the code and logs from this test, so we can independently verify it?

#3 (**permalink**) March 15th, 2002

A map of the new "clustering" network plan for Gnutella:

O = "outsider" (anyone using a non commercial client, Gnucleus, XoloX, etc..)
B = BearShare (aka BlackHole)
L = LimeWire

Code:

                O  O  O  O  O
            O O  \ |  |  | /  O O
           O \ \ BBBBBBBBBBB / / O   O  <- (ready to be sucked in)
          O \ \BBBBBBBBBBBBBBB/ /   /
         O \ BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB   O  O
        O \ BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB /  /
         \ BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB -
  O - O - BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB - RIAA/MPAA (listening post attached to home page)
          BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
         / BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB \
        O   BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB   O - O  <- (another victim is ready)
           / BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB \   \
          O  / BBBBBBBBBBBBBBB \  O  |
            O /  BBBBBBBBBBB  \ O    |     "Vinnie$$Net"
             O    / | | |  \   O     |
                 O  O O O   O        |
                      |              |
                O     O     O        |
                 \    |    /         |
           O     LLLLLLLLLLL     O   O  <- (soon to be sucked into BS)
            \  LLLLLLLLLLLLLLL  /   /
         O   LLLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL   O
          \ LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL /
           LLLLLLLLLLOLLLLOLLLLLLL
  O - O - LLLLLLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL - O
          LLLLLLLLLLLLOLLLLLLLLLLLL
         / LLLLLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL \
        O   LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOLLLLL   O
           / LLLLLLLLOLLLLLLLLLL \
          O    LLLLLLLLLLLLLLL    O
              /  LLLLLLLLLLL  \            "LimeWireNet"
             O        |        O
                      O         \
                      |         |
          O - O - O - O         |
         /     \       \        |
        O       O       O - O - O
        |      /       / \  |    \
    O - O     O       O   O O - O O
    |    \    |      /    |      \          "GnutellaNet"
    O     O   O     O     O       O
     \    |  /       \     \      |

So how do you like being the OUTSIDER ?

Think about what it takes for one outsider to reach another
outsider across the "BlackHole" !
Does this serve Vinnie $$$ or Gnutella?

cultiv8r · #4 (**permalink**) March 15th, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Unregistered
[b]A map of the new "clustering" network plan for Gnutella:

ROFLMAO! It's hanging on the wall in the office now!

MtDewJunkE · #5 (**permalink**) March 15th, 2002

funny, yet sad

Vinnie · #6 (**permalink**) March 16th, 2002

Actually, the diagram is roughly accurate.

The BearShare preferencing code is designed to create a concentrated core base of BearShare nodes, with connections to other servents delegated to the fringe of this core.

This provides the best performance for BearShare users, and still ensures that the entire network is connected.

#7 (**permalink**) March 16th, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Vinnie
Actually, the diagram is roughly accurate.

It was based on actual data.

Quote:

The BearShare preferencing code is designed to create a concentrated core base of BearShare nodes, with connections to other servents delegated to the fringe of this core.

You mean "other crappy non-bearshare clients are now outsiders"?

Quote:

This provides the best performance for BearShare users, and still ensures that the entire network is connected.

And there it is, bearshare users make you $$$ so screw the rest of the network! Use the outsiders to get files but that's about it.
You are so busted! It's amazing what little sneaky things you have done to Gnutella! No one would have known if it wasn't for these posts.
Why not just call your "preferencing code" the BearShare profit BlackHole? It sucks you in and then takes all your files!
How's your new Lexus drive?

Vinnie · #8 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2002

How exactly does connection preferencing screw the rest of the network? BearShare still returns search results and allows uploads regardless of client (even XoloX).

In fact, we have discovered a small problem with BearShare's bandwidth flow control algorithms that might actually be causing BearShare hosts to be more unstable than non BearShare hosts.

So if this is true, BearShare's clustering actually *helps* the network, you ***.

I think you're just trolling.

Cyclocyde, what's the deal here?

Morgwen · #9 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Vinnie
Cyclocyde, what's the deal here?

Here you can post your opinion, EVERY opinion...

ONLY without flaming Mr. Falco!

Morgwen

#10 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Vinnie
So if this is true, BearShare's clustering actually *helps* the network, you ***.

yes, the Bearshare single-vendor-network.
Cyclocyde, what's the deal here with bad lanuage?

Morgwen · #11 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Unregistered

yes, the Bearshare single-vendor-network.
Cyclocyde, what's the deal here with bad lanuage?

No deal!

Morgwen

Becker · #12 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Morgwen

Here you can post your opinion, EVERY opinion...

ONLY without flaming Mr. Falco!

Morgwen

Super Mod? Hey whats up? And why does every one think that vinnie is making a crap load of cash?
Becker

#13 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Vinnie
How exactly does connection preferencing screw the rest of the network? BearShare still returns search results and allows uploads regardless of client (even XoloX).

Vinnie, you are so hard headed and try to cover up everything sneaky you do.
I am just posting the facts, the fact is you have always wanted your own little network and will do anything to get it. Now you have it, but you still want to have the support of other clients. You want it all, and you want to control it all.
The reason you need clustering is that you have stupid features that other developers are not supporting, and secret packets that no one has any idea about.
You are not co - operating with other developers, read that word again it's "co -- operating", you are trying to do it your way and won't bend a inch, plus if you can't control it, or it doesn't look like it will make you #1 or some $$ then it isn't going to happen.
Clustering is bad, greed on gnutella is bad, and limewire is doing it for the same reasons, they did XML and left everyone out so they have to cluster too to make their marketed, hyped feature work at least a little.
So you and limewire need to support each other all the way to bankruptcy and go get on your own private closed network.
We don't need greed, this is what happens. We don't need your code, we have lots of our own and it is working fine without $$$ and total domination.
Plus you are a risk to all of us because you are based on the same thing as the RIAA/MPAA - greed. They understand greed and will use it against the network through YOU.
It's not even a race to see who is #1, it's all about what the user wants and what people are willing to contribute.
That's what P2P is all about. Not filling your pocket.
You don't seem to get it. IQ = IQ - 15;
For a smart guy you sure are thick headed.

Quote:

In fact, we have discovered a small problem with BearShare's bandwidth flow control algorithms that might actually be causing BearShare hosts to be more unstable than non BearShare hosts.

Damn good thing you have all the other open source hosts out there to fall back on so you don't lose $$$ market share.

Now, on the other hand, you would make a real good CEO for some big corporation like Pepsi or IBM. You should apply at one of those places and you would make big bucks and it would be easier, I am serious about this because that is your personality. Go with it (and leave us alone, please)

#14 (**permalink**) March 17th, 2002

excellent post!
I hope more people have that look behind the scenes, see what's going on and speak it out.

#15 (**permalink**) March 18th, 2002

***. The average iq here seems to be about 4

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