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October 18th, 2001
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 Uploadlimit for search-requests How about a uploadlimit for searches and search-requests? Ppl who are running cable, would seriously like it coz we have an uploadlimit around 16Kb/sec, but when i'm d/ling and everyone is draining all my u/l capacity with their searches, i can't d/l fast anymore... And align the u/l limit to d/l limit =)  |
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October 18th, 2001
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 Morgwen, you recomend freeloading? I can't believe! Indeed this a very cool feature of Bearshare if you wanna break down gnutella.... don't forget how many busy slots you see allready - and don't forget gnutella is sharing! However limiting the upload traffic to a max could be very usefull, if advanced users exactly know what they do. I never reached the limit with my DSL connection. Propably this is another option for the often requested "advanced nerds option". |
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October 18th, 2001
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But sometimes when you download large files, you need your full bandwidth! I recommend it only sometimes - I know Gnutella is sharing... Morgwen |
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October 18th, 2001
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There are weeks bearshare is running the whole day - and I don´t download anything - the uploadstatisktik says about 400 MB daily! You call it freeloading "400 MB" daily... Sorry but for me there is a difference between "my freeloading" and "free-"loading... Forgot to say since I have DSL I no freeloader anymore!  Morgwen, a shameless freeloader!  |
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October 18th, 2001
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| Okay, but then your first posting makes no sense, sorry to say: If you use DSL (german telekom), upload is split from download... so you personally do NOT get a a higher download ratio by cutting off gnutella and other users downloading from you. While Bearshare does not support multihosted parallel downloads you personally never use your complete download streams ratio. So even the minimal gnutella backbone traffic (compared to DSL) is not reducing your ability to suck fast. So why would you recommend freeloading? Because it's faster for modem users to download... yes, freeloading is egoizm and that's the problem! In a more global context such a feature is contra productive for the gnutella network, less files for all of us and fragmentated horizons. Right now we have statistics from Limewire AFAIK that a few people share, while many users download only. This means a lot of busy slots + a lot of freeloaders. I think a good client should NOT allow freeloading... it might be cool, but it is hurting everyone if missused. I belive you do not missuse your Bearshare (sure!), but the problem is it will be missused. Reducing this posting to one sentence: Gnutella is sharing, freeloading options are contra productive. Last edited by Moak : October 18th, 2001 at 10:50 AM. |
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October 18th, 2001
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Ok, you will say how can somebody download when I have disconnected from gnet... The truth is I never have disconneted from gnet, but if I had a modem today I would do it. I used bearshare three months with a 56k (almost daily), in this three months I have uploaded 12MB... 12 MB for the price of half of my bandwidth!  Moak I think its loooooooong time ago you used a 56k... Morgwen |
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October 18th, 2001
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| Morgwen, you perfectly described the dilema of gnutella! > The truth is I never have disconneted from gnet, but if I had a modem today I would do it. > 12 MB for the price of half of my bandwidth! That's the way freeloader think, and actually I can understand and feel with them very well! The problem is gnutella works only through sharing.... let me repeat: gnutella works only through sharing! Once again? When more people do only suck files (because it's faster and cheaper), less files are shared, more busy slots, gnutella will not work. Sorry. gnutella is NOT the web.... it lives from the members. So... when we wanna keep gnutella alive, we have some possibilites IMHO: * Gnutella client developer should encourage users to be part of the network, encourage people to share and avoid freeloading options where possible. (e.g. never allow to disable uploads, at least allow a small upload ratio something similar as Xolox does). * Gnutella client developer should think about new possibilities to make modem users a valuable part of the gnutella network. (e.g, meshing alla swarmcast = braking files into smaller parts, spread allover the network, which even modem useres can easily provide). I have my ideas more detailed in a older german document (here), if I have more time I will translate it. So long my friend, Moak  PS: Let me say what is NO solution against freeloader: A client developer could easily modify the clients, so that only DSL and high speed user can share with each other (by testing bandwith). Then all those whining modem users "I need to freeload and that is f*cking cool" will have no files anymore and cry loud to heaven - while all the high speed users can suck like god in highspeed heaven! So dude, do you understand what I'm trying to say: Gnutella is very friendly to modem users right now... but gnutella does not need them. Definitely gnutella should use them in future (valuable bandwith rescources are wasted right now!), see about swarming above. Grin, this should not be the future:  Last edited by Moak : October 18th, 2001 at 11:55 AM. |
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October 18th, 2001
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| > The truth is I never have disconneted from gnet, but if I had a modem today I would do it. PPS: You will even hurt yourself. You couldn't resume files behind firewalls (most files according to Limewire statistics) + you couldn't find new hosts + you couldn't start new download from users behind firewalls (no PushRequest). |
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October 18th, 2001
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| Hi Moak! Look what I have found... Erst seine Sachen runterladen (dabei keine Uploads erlauben damit es zunächst schneller geht), translation: first get your stuff (do not allow uploads to get them faster) He? Sorry Moak its the same thing only an other way! Yes, you have to share your files but for modem users its better to share or to download! If there are clients that support modems in such a way you suggested, we can think about no modem freeloaders... Morgwen |
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October 18th, 2001
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| Grrr... Morgwen ... read the whole sentence, don't take one part out of the documents context!!! The quoted sentence continues, it says": let Bearshare run at least the same time as you suck files". Meanwhile I wouldn't recommend "downloading only for short time" for Bearshare modem users. While people do it actually *sigh*, they abuse it too often. Xolox is better here, it does not allow missuse. * But please feel free to translate the whole document. Yeah, would be awesome dude! *grin* Morgwen, you're a fast poster! Cya, Moak * = Xolox is better in that particular case, BUT it needs many bugfixes in the current version. Hope the programmers find time*******ial support soon. |
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October 19th, 2001
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| Hi Moak! For the last time... I don´t think that all modem users should only download - but I think the best for a modem is only sharing or downloading, a modem user can also disconnect from gnet when he is sharing (a Mp3 takes between 30 - 90 minutes, without disconnecting), so the upload is also faster... later he can connect to gnet again! I am lucky with my download/upload ratio 1 to 4! (TDSL) With a modem my ratio was 30 to 1... I was trying to share... So I think every user should think abut it... Freeloading is a crime... So if you free load, let the others free load, too! Full bandwidth in both ways... This is called sharing Moak! Morgwen |
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October 19th, 2001
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I really hope that future gnutella clients do not allow the type of "friendly freeloading" you describe. The problem is that this sounds good, but it is not... because the most freeloaders are not as friendly as you describe. Be honest, modem users act more like this: go online, quick suck your stuff, go offline and forget about anonymous gnutella, time is money. I try to give you a short overview of my idea for a possible future gnutella client. Before I start let me say, I have NOTHING against free loading, freeloaders are NOT evil, blocking freeloaders is stupid! Sharing means giving, if you can give more than others, just do it, you make some souls happy. The goals for a future client might be: more available files for modem AND high bandwith users, stop freeloading by making modem users a valuable part of the network. A short overview: Servants are split up into super peers (hosts with DSL or high speed connection) and normal peers (modem users), AFAIK fasttrack uses this network topology allready. The normal peers do NOT connect to many other peers (to reduce gnutella backbone traffic for them, less or no traffic routing), but the super peers do (they are used as a kind of gnutella reflector, caching search results etc). All servants - even modem users - do spread often requested files all over the gnutella network: swarming of very small parts (e.g. 100 KB). So when all modem users would share only 5% of their bandwith for uploading swarming parts, there would be a huge amount of extra bandwith = faster download for all, nearly no cost for modem users, necessity for freeloading eliminated. While modem users are idle or wait for downloads, they can automatically share with full bandwith. Okay this is theory and all clients have to provide parallel downloads from multiple hosts (as Xolox does). I really don't want you to 'force' to think like I do... sorry for defending my point of view so much. I wanna show that I understand freeloading - yes it's human - but it is harming all of us. Oki, thx for reading this endless discussion, Moaky Moak Last edited by Moak : October 21st, 2001 at 06:08 PM. |
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