Bearshare clients contact each other through Gnutella Net!!!!
 

Ok guys, I like to start a little thread on this Bearshare program.

I'll do it in the proper Bearshare forum.

Just am going to announce it here.


This is to get all interested people to put down their observations, findings and possibly (hopefully) ways to muzzle this intrusive, but very good otherwise, Gnutella Net client.


It (your bearshare program/client) talks to other bearshare clients running on the network, not just direct, but via anybody you are connected with!

And it does that using ENCRYPTED packets!


You cannot stop it, you cannot read it, you don't know what's inside (well some of it is being explained by VINNIE, the Bearshare man), you don't know what will be inside tomorrow and you may not like what it does (if you would know).


It is very technical and quite un-noticable and unknown to the average surfer, who may be only interested in sharing and downloading files, and 'trusts' in the program doing the 'right' thing to him/her.


Well, trust is something, which never ever hast lasted too long, not with people you don't know, not even with your closest friend(s) or lover(s) - unless you are very very lucky!

Sorry, you may not agree with this last bit, but let me say to you now - just live a bit longer and you will understand.

So head off into the Bearshare forum and if you do some testing yourself give your results.


Hopefully somebody comes up with some firewall, code filter or what to do to stop this encrypted packeting between Bearshare clients.


The 'Gnutella Net' MUST stay free of this ego-centric and/or program-centric pollution. It is already congested enough with unfair people who download without sharing, who do not enable incoming connections, but whinge when they cannot connect to anybody fast.


Remember: If nobody has incoming connections enabled, you and I cannot connect to anybody and each other.

The Gnutella Net is still young and growing, and we all make what it is today and tomorrow.


Happy sharing, 'keep the ********* honest' and the controlling and un-necessary (and unwanted) packeting on the Gnutella Net to a MINIMUM.


JD

What are you spamming the forums with this crap. The packets are used for update notices nothing more.

Sephiroth you're an anoing bearshare fundamentalist

Duh!
 

No kidding. Shhhh ... dont tel anyone, its a secret!

In other words he is saying BearShare sucks....Check out my cool BearShare fan site.

http://www.aahost.net/gnutella/bearshit


[ trademarked BearShare logo deleted ]


kick *** :]

Violation
 

Cyclocide, please delete the threads which use the trademarked BearShare logos.

Vinnie, if you have noticed its not the trademarked BearShare logo. For one it says BearShit....Anti-BearShit. My post is not a rambling apon rambling "flame" as you may assume. The post is my expressed thoughts about BearShare. Just as Vinnie has thoughts about my fan site. We can agree to disagree. Infringement only occurs when its an unauthorized duplicate of the original as mine is different to the original.

BearShare, The Power To Share, BearShare.Net, FreePeers, FreePeers Agent, and Defender are trademarks of Free Peers, Inc., Copyright © 2001, all rights reserved worldwide, and may not be used without permission.

If you're speaking of the (term, word, phrase, etc) BearShare as being the "trademarked logo". You must also remember this is the "BearShare" forum.

Anyways do you like my site Vinnie? :]

anti-bearshare: In the future, please don't post that logo here.

Your logo was copyright infringement.

Remember what happened when ****ed Company used logos similar to Fast Company's, idealab!'s, and Amazon.com's?

No I don't. Post a link to a news story. I would like to read it.

Keep in mind that I'm not defending Vinnie or BearShare here; I'm just stating the facts.

In response to your site, specifically reason number 6:

That html page you described (http://home.bearshare.com/) doesn't load (click) every minute. It only loads when you start BearShare.

The ads on that page are being served by <a href="http://www.fastclick.com/">FastClick</a>. I'm familiar with FastClick because we use them for our sites. They pay CPM for pop-unders and either CPM or CPC for 468x60 banner ads, but they only pay for unique users. So using your example, if 10,000 unique users load that page, Vinnie receives 10 * CPM/CPC rate, which is just a small fraction of what you calculated.

Vinnie initially bundled those so-called "spyware" applications with BearShare to generate revenue. A lot of people complained so he made installing them optional in version 2.2.4, and integrated a web browser instead. Now you're complaining about the web browser? Developing BearShare is expensive, distributing it is expensive, and supporting it is expensive. Money doesn't grow on trees and Vinnie doesn't have backing from a company with a lot of resources like Gnotella and LimeWire do. So how do you expect Vinnie to generate revenue from BearShare if he doesn't bundle those applications or integrate a web browser?

http://slashdot.org/yro/00/09/26/1248204.shtml

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,39086,00.html

Still, no matter how scathing it might be, parody is legal -- specifically protected by a "fair use" provision in trademark and copyright law -- so long as it meets certain tests.

For parody to be legal, there has to be a meaningful connection between the subject of the parody and the ultimate message. In other words, you can't take, say, the Microsoft logo and use it to make a parody about evil corporations destroying the ozone layer. Also, the parody has to be sufficiently distinct from the original to be recognizable as a parody.

- taked from the <a href="http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,39086,00.html">Wired.com story</a>.

I was depicting the relationship with BearShare to BearShit (as it sucks) and BearShit as "BearShare". Then with the whole phrase Anti-BearShit.

They didn't even go to court to decide if it was copyright infringement or not.

That is why I said Imagine....My intent on that comment was not really for Vinnie making the money. Because apparently no one wants to invest into Vinnie's awesome company. With the intergration of adware, spyware, html banners, etc. Gnutella will become commericalized. No one wants thats. I ****ing hate ads myself. Also with ads there are privacy issues. Such as cookies and other things that ultimately lead to companies tracking your web usage. That is a fact. I dont like that either. Neither should you.

[QUOTE]
The ads on that page are being served by <a href="http://www.fastclick.com/">FastClick</a>. I'm familiar with FastClick because we use them for our sites. They pay CPM for pop-unders and either CPM or CPC for 468x60 banner ads, but they only pay for unique users. So using your example, if 10,000 unique users load that page, Vinnie receives 10 * CPM/CPC rate, which is just a small fraction of what you calculated.[QUOTE]
Same as above.

Sell drugs (joke if anyone didnt notice). I'll have to say same as above.


Cyclocide thank you for letting my posts stay and me expressing my thoughts about a certain subject. Thank you.

Still, no matter how scathing it might be, parody is legal -- specifically protected by a "fair use" provision in trademark and copyright law -- so long as it meets certain tests.

For parody to be legal, there has to be a meaningful connection between the subject of the parody and the ultimate message. In other words, you can't take, say, the Microsoft logo and use it to make a parody about evil corporations destroying the ozone layer. Also, the parody has to be sufficiently distinct from the original to be recognizable as a parody.

- taked from the <a href="http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,39086,00.html">Wired.com story</a>.

I was depicting the relationship with BearShare to BearShit (as it sucks) and BearShit as "BearShare". Then with the whole phrase Anti-BearShit.

They didn't even go to court to decide if it was copyright infringement or not.

A mirror please
 

http://www.aahost.net/gnutella/bearshit
is down... free speech against bussines, again money rules. :(

Yep. Main page is http://www.aahost.net/gnutella. Anyone know of other free hosting sites like aahost.net? I've emailed the administrators.

You mean like
http://www.fortunecity.com/
http://geocities.yahoo.com/home

Better ask http://www.google.com for more free web hosting and create some mirror sites. Maybe you wanna add a forum too, there should be some free forum hosters out there.

You're right. pud (the guy who runs ****ed Company) backed off when those companies threatened him because he didn't want to deal with them.

Will you allow me to post the image?

That may not have been your intent, but you are misleading people that don't know any better and think that's how much revenue BearShare generates.

You say you hate ads, yet virtually all web sites use them. Would you rather pay for the content on those sites? You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

How would you suggest Vinnie generate revenue from BearShare if he doesn't "[integrate] adware, spyware, html banners, etc"?

You are free to post it on your site, but please don't post it on ours.

Your parody is not distinct from the original. With the exception of the three changed letters, it looks exactly like the BearShare logo.

I've changed my comments on the BearShare fan <a href="http://www.geocities.com/antibearshit">site</a> to depict my original intent of the statement.

I generally hate ads. I wouldnt mind them so much if they didnt have privacy issues attached to them. I dont like commericalization of anything especially the net. with commericalization comes some type of centralization of power. Open-source is a prime example of having your cake and eating it too. (Not saying BearShare should be open-source just stating that a lot of things can be beneficial free. By the people for the people sense.)

Investors.

about the logo
 

No problem will do. If anyone cares I'm going to look for further changing the logo in the near future. ahh whatever.... :]

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/antibearshit">BearShare fan site</a>


<img src="http://www.geocities.com/antibearshare/br.jpg" border=0>

What privacy issues? What's wrong if an advertising company tracks what sites you visit? Tracking what sites people visit would result in more targeted advertising and would increase the ad revenue to publishers (which is something that would really help a lot of sites in this day and age).

Open-source usually doesn't work. Look at what happened to Netscape.

Uhm, if investors invested in BearShare, it would be commercialized.

Open source usually doesn't work? Ignore apache webserver, squid proxy, gimp grafix software, KDE, Linux, FreeBSD, global inventions and internet rechnologies... need more?
I'll accept Open Source doesn't work for Bearshare, yeah we all need money to live!

Since you keep promoting your site here, I'll go through your reasons one-by-one. Before I was stating the facts, now I'm stating my opinion.


What about the name? Is it any less original than the names of the other Gnutella clients?


What about them? You don't even know Michael.


BearShare's web site and logo look fine to me. Unlike Gnotella and LimeWire, Vinnie doesn't have the financial resources to hire a web designer.


They generate revenue. Why don't you come up with a better solution?


Vinnie already explained what the encrypted packets are for.


Or maybe it's because more people use BearShare than any other Gnutella client and some of those people were pissed off at Vinnie/BearShare so they deliberately tried to find an exploit. All programs have bugs.


What's your point? Yes, Windows 95/98/ME are shitty; Windows NT/2000/Whistler aren't.

In case you haven't noticed, Gnotella, Gnucleus, Newtella, and ToadNode are Windows specific too.


Maybe, but other people uncheck it because their provider doesn't allow incoming connections to servers. I'm one of those people.


Which clients do this?


That's because you violated your provider's TOS. You're still infringing on BearShare's copyright by using their trademarked logo.

Yes, those are exceptions. That's why I said "usually".

Privacy issues such as tracking your web usage (what you buy [email, name, address, phone number, even other personal information], what you search for [cars, gay black men, hot lesbians, etc], what OS you're running, demographic information.) Then they can cross-reference that with other demographic information and call your house to try to sell you some gay blackman motion lotion. Then you wonder how they got you on their list. They also sell your PRIVATE information for profit at your expense of privacy.

I think Moak says it better. :]

Commercialization is when something is being advertised to you (as a company wants you to BUY something). In shorter terms someone trying to sell you something you dont need.

Cyclocide that is totally cool. You are freely to state your opinions as I have stated my thoughts. This Anti-BearShit thing is a make fun of, prove some points, and pick at BearShare and fun parody (also a little humor of microsoft with the windows comment. LimeWire and Phex are the only Cross-Platform clients :]) Why not create a program to use for all OSes instead of single shitty one?

Most of your comments I've answered in the post reply to Moak (Updated BearShare fan site thread).

What are the encrypted packets for?

10. to your response

Most new users who just use the gnutella to download music, porn, and movies are the ones who really dont give a **** on how the network operates. Then whines and complains that they can't download anything b/c of the fact that people are not sharing or accepting incoming connections. It should be a default that BearShare has to accept incoming connections. If your connection (firewalled, etc) doesnt accept connections then why do you need a option to say if you want to accept incoming connections or not? You dont thats why.


11. to your response
LimeWire and some other clients have a feature to filter out results for a specific file type (such as program [exe,zip], audio [mp3, ram, wma], etc). Alot of people are searching for specific files such as the_band - the_song.mp3. Those type of queries congests the network. Maybe one person has that file in that exact filename out of 1,000 hosts. Now if that same person searched for keywords such as the band or the song in the audio file type. They would get a lot more results back than they searched the first time the_band - the_song.mp3. Because maybe a host has that file but with the filename the band_the song.mp3. Maybe that host doesnt have any upload slots filled. So you could download the file. Now with BearShare when you search for something it just places all your results in one big list. Now if you wanted to search for something else you would have to stop and clear the list or just scroll down through a lot of results you didnt want in the first place (file type wise). I believe LimeWire and other clients have seperate result lists for your searches (better organization). They also have "grouping" as if multiple hosts have the same filename and size it will place that specific result in a grouping. Say 10 hosts have the same file. So you know you have a better download succession rate than a result only with one host to download from. BearShare's resume download and a grouping (caching of known hosts instead of initializing another search) feature would be excellent.

Okay, let me be a little bit more specific about my provider. They allows incoming connections, but only if they're not to file-sharing applications. What are people supposed to do in that situation?

Commercialization is to do something for profit. If investors invested in BearShare, they would still have to find a way to generate revenue.

> Okay, let me be a little bit more specific about my provider.
> They allows incoming connections, but only if they're not to file-
> sharing applications. What are people supposed to do in that
> situation?

Hmm, he does not allow it? Should we really believe that, may I ask something... ?
I could imagine that you are using an university or company internet access... so they forbid file sharing generally, but allowing gigs&terrabytes of traffic downloading and no uploading? Maybe you could tell where I'm wrong.

But if your ISP forbids P2P generally then he will block e.g. known gnutella ports, so it makes no sense to disable "Accept incoming hosts" in Bearshare anymore... it's allready blocked.

My suggestion: IMHO the option "Accept incoming hosts" is for network topololgy/debugging purpose only and will be better suited in the setup dialog or could be eighther deleted in future releases. I agree with the fact that some newbies will disable it just because in fear of hackers... incoming hosts maybe sounds too scarry for them (*guessing*). Check what the Bearshare online help tells about it... doesn't it sound scarry for all non-geek/non-programmer. Should I suggest it as "Feature Requests" at http://bearshare.net/ ?

PS: For sure you all know the workaround when only port 6436 is blocked, but all other highports remain unfiltered. :)
PPS: Sorry for my english, I try my best, really :)

Sorry, "Unregistered" right now has been me = Moak.
When you press "Preview" your username will be reset to "Unregistered".

It shouldn't do that if you log in first.

> They don’t want us to allow uploading because it puts them at
> legal risk.
> They are indifferent about us downloading.

Oh I understand - sorry that I have been a kind of suspicous. :)

Then disabling "Accept incoming host" is not what you want, under your university's term you should better disable "Share files" in the Upload-tab.
It's possible that the law in your country does not only forbid the distribution of possible DMCA critical contents, but also to be part of a network which theoretically could, even if you don't. I personally think to be part of such an network will not break laws. Otherwise all ISP would be guilty in sharing copyright protected stuff or even much worse kidporn. I think all this is no technical problem, it's a socitey problem... but I'm no lawyer.

However, moving the "accept incoming host" in the setup dialog would IMHO makes more sense. What do you think?

I've updated the main logo on my <a href="http://www.geocities.com/antibearshit">site</a>.


It should be on as default. If you cant accept incoming connections b/c your provider you should not be connected to the network in the first place. From what you said I assume you do not allow uploads to anyone so you're a freeloader. But I'll also assume you're on a T1 or T3 so you download from others like a mofo. In return segmenting and congesting the network.

BearShare is bad for gnet, Vinnie.

Bearshare is cool, plz make it better Vinnie.

I can live with freeloaders, hope they can live with their bad karma. :) Check my suggestion about "karma" at http://bearshare.net . Before I forget, I don't like the new Bearshit logo, try it more stylish or you never get linked by Free Peers! :)