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Clustering, the new word for Vinnie$$$Net! Bearshare is no longer the dominant client on the network, I say BLOCK IT! Gnucleus is cool and open source and rules the world! Gnucleus RULES! COOL!!! :) We are free of vinnie at last! PARTY!! Someone provide a copy of a modified Gnucleus that blocks all this BS on the network. Just like "clean limewire". John should provide a feature to block any client we so chose, give us a little edit box john! GIVE US CHOICE! I don't want to be part of the BS network! I don't want to share to BS clients and support Vinnie$$$Net! Vinnie has always wanted his own little network to control and rule over, good riddance! BYE BYE!! Clustering my ****... Cutting off XolX because you want to rule the world, screw you!! there are consequences to your actions vinnie! Anyone willing to provide the download space? Who is the clean limewire guy? New connect string for BS clients VINNIE$$$NET CONNECT/0.6 OK |
So it really is a BearShare network, Gnutella is now dead. "it will be the responsibility of other vendors to crawl our BearShare network and mix in the IP addresses of our Ultrapeers, if they wish to remain connected to the BearShare network." I don't know about you but I won't be "crawling" the bearshare network, Vinnie will be crawling back after his bankruptcy since gnutella cut him off. the_gdf 6308 From: freepeers info@f... Date: Wed Mar 13, 2002 5:24pm Subject: Split Networks (Was Re: Don't cooperate...) > -----Original Message----- > From: Justin Chapweske [mailto:justin@c...] > > I'm curious, but what if anything keeps the LW and BS clusters from > splitting into two completely seperate networks? Does either LW or BS > maintain a probability of connecting to nodes from other vendors to > prevent a gnutella net split? BearShare will never drop a connection once it has handshaked and been accepted. So if a non BearShare host makes it in to a BearShare host it will stay as long as it wants to, assuming the BearShare host does not exit the application. Our improved host cache will visit other host caches (this includes the Morpheus host caches, currently running BearShare in anchor mode), storing the IP addresses in a "seed list". When a BearShare host visits our host cache, we will deliver 30 pongs: - 18 pongs randomly chosen from the top 50% of hosts measured by uptime - 9 pongs randomly chosen from the bottom 50% of hosts measured by uptime - 3 pongs randomly selected from the "seed list" These numbers may be tweaked in the future for optimium network structure. When we eliminate our host cache, it will be the responsibility of other vendors to crawl our BearShare network and mix in the IP addresses of our Ultrapeers, if they wish to remain connected to the BearShare network. Alternatively, we can publish the IP addresses of the top BearShare hosts measured by uptimes on a web page. Other vendors can include this list with their installer so their servent can bootstrap from it, or they can harvest this list periodically and merge the addresses into their host cache. Therefore, we have solutions for keeping the network together today, tomorrow, and beyond (when host caches disappear). |
Hmm... I wonder why no one of the GDF developers say something! If Gnutella follow this way - I will leave... Morgwen |
The GDF = some high society pals holding each other's hand and controlled by bearshare and limewire. they don't need anyone else, because (they think) they're doing such an excellent work. |
Now that a open source client is the #1 client they see their market share going bye bye and they will do anything to keep their "job". Greed doesn't belong on gnutella and this is another example. gdf isn't controlled by them because they just do whatever they want regardless of what anyone says there. Quote:
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From the "BearShare 2.5.0 beta 10" message "- BearShare preferencing, ie. last host slot is reserved for a bear. " beta 10? Why do they have to announce every release like it's something great and now every beta? beta 1 - one new feature that no one cares about beta 2 - fixed bug with the last feature I added beta 3 - wow! I really messed up and fixed it beta 4 - ok I think I got it right this time beta 5 - no really, I got it (no announcement) took out the feature because I suck as a programmer and can't get this right beta 7 - patched windows so I can actually make this work beta 8 - waiting for billy boy gates to accept my patch and sell a new version of windows beaa 9 - I just wanted some free publicity, no real changes here beta 10 - hey its your daily update! Its the vinnie net! |
How does it know if it's is a BearShare? How does the BearShare hostcache know what client is connecting to it? If it only goes by the little four letter ID thingy, I forgot exactly what it's called, it wouldn't be that hard to modify a client to lie to the BearShare hostcache and say it is BearShare. This would completely defeat Vinnie's domination plan. |
i think that Bearshare... when connects to another client sends some private data that only bearshare clients understand and respond to. |
All you would need to do is use a packet sniffer to examine what it sends out, and emulate it. |
Anyone remember the spy packets that bearshare sent out? Remember how vinnie said they were just so he could send out update messages for new versions? Bearshare has a built in browser and goes directly to the bearshare site trying to sell you t-shrits or other garbage. Updates and or update messages could easily come in at that time from his home page. So why are spy packets still being sent???? And, what could be worse than a closed source client that "checks in to the home site" every time you use it? Do you know what info he sends out to his site when he connects? Is it in a encrypted packet? Would Vinnie give the RIAA your personal info if threatened with a law suit? YOU BET HE WOULD! $$$ One more good reason to stick with free, spyware free, open source clients. |
Re: How does it know if it's is a BearShare? Quote:
The goal is not "domination". It is simply to group BearShare servents together. It doesn't matter if the host cache is not fully secure because we aren't trying to separate from the network or deny service to anyone (note connectX.gnutellanet.com are running BearShare host caches). All we are trying to do is structure the BearShare portion of the network a little more intelligently so that users get a better experience. Therefore, if a few modified servents "lie" to our host cache it really isn't a big deal. |
ok Excuse the new dummie, and try not to rag on me too much, K? I won't even pretend to be up on Gnutella Protocol (thus and honest question) I have been using bearshare 2.50 since it started in development. Right here and now, I have 5 hosts - 4 BS and 1 gtk-gnutella. Meanwhile, my uploads are dominated be Gnucleus and gtk-gnutella, hammering at requests apparently every second!? One guy is trying to get 9 files...he/she is putting a scroll bar on my upload screen (I have 3 slots open - 1 per user) I have high speed, so I finally said screw it, opened 7 slots and 7 per user. Doesn't matter because this behavior is typical and unending....Without exageration I would say at least 70% of my uploads have been to non-BS servents in the past week. In spite of the hosts. So, why is unending, greedy, ignorant, rude-as-hell (especially when you find out they are on dial-up) hammering not a big deal. I don't see many of you complaining of that. Again, I am truly just curious here. The rest of your points concerning BS and Limewire are taken. |
Re: Re: How does it know if it's is a BearShare? Quote:
Morgwen |
Re: Re: Re: How does it know if it's is a BearShare? Quote:
As for bearshare grouping bearshare. Good! I use bearshare alot and i use all the host cache. I was connected to non bearshare clients and the only hosted files where morphus. I downloaded 2 larger files. 70 megs a pop. They were tv shows. well with the new muti-source downloading the files were screwed up. i read some where the limewire was going to hash files. maybe then vinnie wont group bearshare. but untill then i would like good files :̃ Becker |
Funny... the new version is out... and I read this: http://www.bearshare.net/forum/showt...threadid=10729 Morgwen |
Re: Re: Re: Re: How does it know if it's is a BearShare? Quote:
So now are the other files bad or what? Hey I am using Gnutella for over a year now - I tested every cllient... which bad files? Morgwen |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How does it know if it's is a BearShare? Quote:
Becker |
Hmm... this never happened to me... and I have tested more than only bearshare - perhaps a communication problem between bearshare and the other clients? Ah Becker, perhaps you know also why bearshare sends encrypted data packages when it connect? I am curious! Morgwen |
Re: ok Quote:
So now I block any connections from bearshare and then they never know I am here and don't plaster me with incoming packets. I get more files this way. |
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start your sniffers! Becker |
New to gnutella community but not new to networks but I wanted to share both my responce and add some input to this cluster issue which should not go on unchecked and resolved. I thought limewire was horrible as it mismanaged buffer space making it difficult to run multiple communication apps browser the internet and share via limewire without getting insufficient buffer space messages. Now I am already shy on buffer space as I run multiple services off this single machine including multiple web daemons and ftp and both a web mail and pop / smtp daemon. Apache is hosting some 20 domains which is not very many for a nix box but until I finish constructing a new nix box this windoze 98se will have to do for a while. I dumped limewire and ran bearshare and experienced a greater threshold and only ran into difficulty when I bumped the hosts and download numbers too high. I am running the hosts at 10 and the download files at 8 at the same time all the daemons running in the background serving out requests (get about 100 unique hits per minute) and was able to run trillian with 10 different connected accounts without a problem. I also enabled the bearshare webserver which also worked well. Bearshare did stop accepting requests both in client and webserver after editing the ini for the webserver and client params. This was cleared up after rebooting. No I am looking into the clustering issues and wonder about dumping bearshare as well and moving onto a better client if one exists. opensource is not always better, preferred maybe but doesn't mean it will work well for everyone. bearshare so far gets a higher score than limewire but I also am very disappointed with the corrupt files I have been downloading. It simply doesn't make sense to me how people with modems can deal with the time it takes to download a corrupt file. It is bad enough with the misleading files names that some of these losers share. I downloaded what I thought to be a kids movie and ended up with someone's idea of a sick joke. I would prefer open source and those clients made by those networks who do not try to block other clients and force their ads onto the masses in order to make a dime. I don't care so much about the forced ads so much as I do about the attempt to control the networks with sick clustering and secret packets. This is simply WRONG and If I was still the hacker I was once known to be I would wage WAR on their networks until they fell to the waste side. Lucky for them I am 0160 the invisible hacker gone admin. unlucky for them however since it would seem the word is out and they will still fall as users become aware. I am no a gnutella expert per se but I understand networking. I used to run my own IRC Network and a BOT NET to boot. I understand hubs and clusters leafs and nodes etc. I will be looking more into this clustering issue and welcome all input & intel from others. If I find this to be without a doubt a fact that they are doing what you said about the clustering then I will convince all my online brothers to start adding warnings to their files (html,doc,txt,pdf, and even video files) in addition to postings on webpages and forums. We will not let this go on unchecked! We demand that this be resolved immediately! Call it beta whatever, we want there to be a gnutella standard for both packet protocol and clustering practices! I love extra features just as much as the next guy but get annoyed when those features cause connectivity issues and especially do not like those which attempt to create a monopoly like network for themselves. We should be able to add any number of connect#.networkname.tld:port# to the configuration any of the gnutella clients and have them connect and download/upload without the problems we have seen lately. I may not know enough to talk about this intelligently for some but I think I am being clear enough. When I complete my new nix server this week I will be able to run some additional tests among the nix box and the few MACS and PC's I have here at my disposal. |
Clustering is just one example of the result of greed, and it's already been admitted to by vinnie so it's true. He still thinks it's fine. Greed must be removed from the network, any "race" to become #1 at all costs is bad for the network. Co-operation, contributions from people pitching in ideas, code and support is the only way to go, and the only way to beat the greedy corporations. Sharing is true P2P. |
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I asked you a simple question... its not worth to anwser this question? I don´t see a reason that everybody should download now a sniffer to know what bearshare does! I think you and Vinnie should explain it! Also the fact that bearshare is collecting datas about my system and sends them throught the net - is this optional? Morgwen |
Re: Clustering, the new word for Vinnie$$$Net! Quote:
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No more Greed, no more spy packets, nothing but open source! http://snow.prohosting.com/openp2p/ |
I see this BB is working tonight. the other one isn't, unless Jorden is blocking me 'cause I hurt his feelings. nicobie |
follow up and my current opinion Well my friends, I have spent some additional time using bearshare and have found it to be one of the worst pieces of code to occupy some of my hard drive space. I am dumping it and changing over to FreeWire which is of course based on Limewires code yet improved and open source GPL. No nags No shopping BS no BS period. I have yet to give it a full work out but you can bet I will be over the weekend. As for LimeWire and BearShare dump them both! I am setting up a new fbsd 4.5 box here this weekend and will want to try out some open sorce GPL clients under it. any suggestions? greed is evil !!! as Stallman puts it: Quote:
i'll let ya know what i think of this FreeWire soon |
What's wrong with clustering? I've seen that many people don't like clustering. I just wan't to hear some explanation that why clustering is so bad. This far I have only heard that clustering is greed and Vinnie stinks. Can you please give reasons for why you think so. BearShare clients are supporting hashes, there aren't othert gnutella clients wich support hashes (as far as I know, only newest LimeWire support hashes). So, if you want to take advantage of corruption free swarming downloads, you must have enough clients in your horizon wich support hashes. If you don't have, the swarming feature is unefficient and may cause corruptions to files. There is so few BearShare clients in the network that it is necessary to pull them together. How does it harm the network? Are they still connected to rest of the network? Yes. Can others get hits from clustered clients? Yes, much. Can othet clients connect and get files from clustered part of network? Yes. Yes, you can't deny that clustered clients benefit from clustering, other clients can't get that benefit. So, are you just jeallous if you're out from that cluster? How the world is different in outside of the cluster? I think there is no difference. There is reason for why certain clients are clustered, they have features what other client's haven't implemented yet. They need other client's wich support these features. Can the "outsider clients" benefit from clustering? No. Can "outsider clients" benefit if clustering would be removed? No. Clustering won't affect at all to the "outsider" clients. Clusters aren't separate networks, they are just parts of network where are more certain type of clients than others. And those parts of network are tightly connected to the rest of the network. Someone please explane me what is wrong with clustering. I can't see any reasons why it is so wrong. |
Re: follow up and my current opinion Quote:
Oh, and clustering sucks. But why get worked up over it? If you don't use BearShare, it doesn't really affect you. You can't find the files on BearShare users HDs, but they can't find the ones on yours, so it's not like they'll leech or anything. They'll just find themselves isolated. Oh well. |
@ 0160 Freewire is only a Limewire ripp off... they took out the Limewire ads and bundled software and replaced it by their own to make money... Yes this are the MAYOR changes - or why do you think they call their version 2.4.4? :) This is also confirmed by Adam Fisk (limewire developer)! The both REALLY clean version are aqualime and clean Limewire, thanks to MamiyaOtaru and VTOLfreak. Morgwen |
Re: Re: follow up and my current opinion Quote:
Why? Because of the Morpheus influx, the network is WAY too big for any single servent to see a significant percentage of the entire network. No matter where you are in the network, I estimate that about 80% of the network is "invisible" to you due to its size. Not to worry - Free Peers, Inc. has submitted the "query mesh" proposal to the GDF. This is a proposal to provide global searchability to the network, in a vendor-interoperable standard. This proposal offers a number of benefits: 1) Web servers can return Gnutella search results 2) Queries with TTL>2 are eliminated 3) Searching burden is shifted from the network to the client (person doing the search) 4) Searches are more efficient, since they can be stopped when the desired number of results are obtained. The scheme can also be extended to create content affinity groups (clusters of Ultrapeers whose leaves have a specific content type, e.g. "anime"). You can read the full text of the proposal here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_gd.../querymesh.txt |
forget any limeware (limewire freewire) and bearshare and anything else that isnt DC. I have been spending some time on the DC network. I have been evaluating it for the last few days and believe it is the best thing since Napster! You can download your free copy of DC by neo-modus at: http://www.neo-modus.com/ or DC++ (banner less) from: http://dcplusplus.sourceforge.net/ DC++ also has NO pop ups and you can hook up to multiple hubs simultaneously and thus search multiple hubs at once! Note the only drawback on DC++ is it is discriminated from some hubs for reasons I am unaware of:confused:. It could be that it puts an additional strain on the hub or that DC++ users by being on multiple hubs tend to be slower then others or that their slots are taken up faster since they are more visible by being on multiple hubs. I have seen some hubs limit the number of hubs a DC++ client, although welcome, may be connected to while attempting to connecting to their hub. DC beats da heck out of BEAR SHARE, LIMEWIRE and other P2P network clients:D. This is a different type of network and while new to me it is already superior to others IMHO. DC protocol still lacks some features found in other p2p clients :( like connection throttle, Segmented Downloading, Drag-and-drop links, and BearShare's built in website. It also is not without its bugs but like most p2p clients will continue to evolve. :) Something really neat about this network setup is how anyone can quickly and easily setup their own hub and be their own HUB MASTER (The big boss man) :D. A very nice way to have the sources of many files made available. Then link the hub up with a friends or some other existing hubs and watch your network grow. With the exception of neo-modus made Direct Connection client, this is a NO GREED file sharing concept which has proved to be faster and more open that Napster ever was. With so many privately ran hubs it is impossible to shut it down. Another Tip: Do not share adobe ware as they are so far the only ones I know of with their own cyber police dept which actively search out those people who share their expensive software. I have yet to see or hear about them in any of the p2p or DC networks but I personally will not take the chance. I would rather give away microsoft all darn day then to fear the adobe police. One of my friends got caught while offering PhotoShop 5.5 to users over IRC on #cablewarez channel. He had to pay $1000 US dollars and spend some additional time doing some community service. Oh yeah, it was his parents that had to pay the money. They were not too happy about that as you could guess. I will be running my own hub soon :D Till then you can find me at: "ALL4U" hub address = IWANTMOVIES.dns2go.com I am an OP there so if you cause any trouble I can kick ban ya booty out :-) Everyone is REALLY nice there! I will move my client to a different computer here real soon and so I will be leaving it online 7/24. I have 25 Gigs of STUFF so far and growing by the minute. I will need to get a 120 gig hard drive SOON. I been connecting all my LAN shares to it to try to keep from running out of room on my main computer. With only 1 gig left it is a hard to keep up by un installing unwanted apps to free up more room. My username is [0160] as I try to be fairly anonymous on these types of networks. Too many freaks online you know. Suggestion: DO NOT put your real name in the settings. I have yet to have a problem. But I would not want to hear of any horror stories on account I suggested to try it out and someone was naive enough to enter their real name and end up being stalked or something. Even the email address is OPTIONAL which is pretty nice for those who do not like giving out their only email address in fear of being spammed etc. So far I have only received one email that I considered to be spam worthy. The worst part of this network is the fact that so many OPs run these stupid scripts that look for key words and drop ya like a bad habit when they fine something that matches their criteria like "rape" "preteen" or a file name that would suggest you were sharing an installed file like an "ini" or "bat" file (so I can only assume since I have not been able to ask them after I was kick banned and ip banned all in a bloody second). The hub I am it will not do that and presently does not have a minimum share size. I have been unable to get into some places as they require you to have available 50 100 and in a few cases 500 Gigs to share with others. That is just sick!. Well there are so many hubs that it is practically impossible to run out of sources for files and more files. Even with the Gnutella protocol based networks and those clients accessing them, I do not believe they can compete with these Network Statistics: Current Number of Users Online 89870 Total Data Available 2407.46 TB Recent Peak Number Of Users 92345 Current Number of Hubs Online 1646 Correct me if I am wrong but this is greater than Gnutella Protocol based networks right? Well that is my evaluation so far. I will probably take the source of DC neo-modus and rip out their banner and pop ups. I the system resources on my computer tends to drop more and more as time goes by while they keep the iexplore tied up. You can tell as I was not asked by the way I did not have to re login to a forum as my iexplore session never did actually close since DC was still using it in the background behind the scenes to display that stupid banner. What would really rock is a client that does not do pop ups and could access BOTH Gnutella based networks and the DC based HUBS. Now THAT would be BRILLIANT! Lastly, I can not wait for some Linux ports of these p2p and DC based clients and hubs for DC. That would be so sweet! |
sorry but I simply do not agree BTW I edited my reply posting ABOVE a minute ago. Like I said though, it would be good to have a multiple protocol client like Trillian is to MSN AIM ICQ YAHOO and IRC chat networks. And also DC is NOT without their bugs or inadequacies but when it comes to actually GETTING files I can assure EVERYONE that from MY OWN experience it is FAR better than any other network hands down! Remember that things do change and so if you have NOT checked it out lately then I suggest you DO so before suggesting it is worst than Usenet *shakes head*. Because THAT is FAR from the truth. I am not loyal to anything online as the internet is so a dynamic. I always come back to give things another chance to see if it has evolved into something worth while. |
DC New networks are always better, Why? It's becouse the really comitted p2p people join in first and they do share. But after a while the leeches join in for they heard it's so good to get files...... |
well there are ways to prevent leechers. 1) Require they share some amount of files be it 1 5 10 or whatever amount of Gigs you believe is reasonable. Personally anything more then 5 is not good for the virgin user and so they end up stuck in some smaller hubs or those who are not so uptight about it. 2) Require the user to have a minimum amount of slots available. This prevents those who only allow 1 slot and download from 10 people at once. I believe since it is a USER ran network via HUBS and linked HUBS that any problems can be over come. :D |
Re: forget any limeware (limewire freewire) and bearshare and anything else that isnt Quote:
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Streamcast claims that the figures on LimeWire.com only show the capabilities of their crawler and the real number of simultanous users should be somewhere around 1,5 millions. While I don't believe it's that high (although the number of downloads Morpheus PE has on CNET.com may support that estimation) I think the number of simultaneous users could easily be around 500,000. |
REALLY!?! if they are as high as 1.5 million or even a 3rd of that. that is extremely large for a network that is 1/10th the speed of DC. I downloaded a few gigs of movies in much less the time that it took to grab ONE movie using BearShare or LimeWire. I have also downloaded SEVERAL COMPLETE APPS using DC in FAR less time than it took to completely download ONE complete APP using BearShare or LimeWire. I actually had MUCH better luck with BearShare than LimeWire but DC kicked both their tails. The only problem I have now with DC network and their clients is that both DC and DC++ are flakey and buggy while their network is ran by too many bloated egos. There are SOME really cool people out there and I am so glad I have met them but I would say the ratio is 1 to 4 (1 being the cool and 4 being the lame a$$holes that get off on kick/banning at a whims notice). It could also be that the DC network is less secure in so much it is too easy for anyone to grab some ones IP address and start hacking away at their computer. Remember, nothing stays the same and nothing is perfect. It is our voices that help make a difference so keep up the feedback as will I. I tell it like it is. I certainly not loyal to any single platform or client so long as a better one rises above the rest. On a note of security, DEFCON mentioned the development of a new and MORE secure p2p like network which would help to protect peoples identity. Of course it is nearly impossible to attain such a goal and they will probably not achieve 100% anonymous file sharing capabilities as anyone can so a [START] RUN "netstat -a" or use another IP/PORT monitoring binary but at least it would keep SOME of the lame script kiddies at bay. WHO will be at DEFCON X ? (I MIGHT) from San Diego CA (cost is $75 USD now though.) |
I'm the Clean LimeWire "guy" , got something to say !?! Unless they started blocking clients with BS 2.6.2 noone is blocking noone . If you remove all the BS hostcaches from the list in BS and put in others BS will happily connect to every client it finds . Also , try removing all LW hostcaches in LW and put in the list from BS . Suddenly your LW is connected to nothing but other BS clients . The only thing out on the net blocking something is LW's hostcache wich only accepts LW clients . Also , Clean LW is just LW with no ads or spyware . It does not change anything else . the concepts "clean" client is not the same as "blocking" client . "clean" = no spyware or ads in the client "blocking" = client blocks other clients Do me and everyone else a favor before you post : RTFM ! This rant is directed at the first "unregistered" post in this trhead . I did not mean to insult anyone else . |
Glad to meet ya VTOLfreak I have not tried your clean LW as of yet VTOLfreak but I plan on it. |
Re: REALLY!?! Quote:
http://www.freehaven.net/doc/iptps02/tarzan-iptps.pdf |
Nothing is special about any of the clones they are al rip offs and yes even Morpheus. With the people they copied the base of their client from they are NOTHING. |
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