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Introducing the OpenSource Network! All we have to do to get away from greed, Vinnie and the like is to let them have GNUTELLA CONNECT. We will change to OPENSOURCE CONNECT/0.6 that way they can never use it and try to use our resources to provide data to their $$$ clients. You will be assured that you aren't contributing $$ to new car purchases and corporate overhead! Start coding now! It only takes a one line change. No need to change the entire protocol, it works fine as is. The new rule/law on the OpenSource network is no commercial greedy clients allowed. If anyone tries to make a buck from their software, and/or doesn't provide source code they are completely blocked. A list of commercial clients will be posted to this forum and then will be blocked automatically. No more greed! |
In Gnucleus, "GnucleusDoc.cpp" at about line 115 ModeNetwork = "GNUTELLA"; All you have to do is change it to ModeNetwork = "OPENSOURCE"; And you are ready to go! Anyone want to supply a downloadable version? It wouldn't be hard to add to "Preferences.cpp" a line that would allow this to be changed in the "GnuConfig.ini" file. |
And a little "marketing" blurb you can post: You use your network resources and spend your personal time sharing your files to the network. Did you know other people are making big bucks and buying new cars because of your efforts? Do you want your efforts to go towards corporate overhead? Do you spend your time sharing files so other greedy people can get rich? Are you worried that the RIAA/MPAA can pressure commercial P2P companies into giving them your personal information through threats of law suits? If greed is #1 and the RIAA offers them $$$ do you think they will turn it down? Are you tired of spyware and popup ads? Join the OpenSource P2P Net today! No corporate greed is allowed on the OpenSource P2P Net! If a client does not provide source code and/or tries to make money from their software, the client is blocked automatically! No spyware, no popup ads because it's open source! Only pure P2P file sharing, like it should be! It's easy! Look for patches or new versions of your favorite open source client on this forum! Gnucleus is the first to have a easy patch and is ready to join the OpenSource P2P Net! |
To kick this off we need a few nice people with static IPs to run Gnucleus 24 hrs with the OpenSource connect string mod. At first it won't take much bandwidth since your node will mostly be used to find other nodes. Please post your IPs here, thanks. People wanting to connect should add these IPs to their host cache list and take all the old ones out. Join today and we can really get this thing kicking! |
You Sir, are a moron I guess you have no idea how much work is involved in fielding a decent P2P client. Nor do you have a clue what the cost of serving a client to the masses is. How would you pay for this: (eg. Morpheus): 15 million files downloaded @ 707KB/user = ~10000 GB of bandwidth. Considering you can get bandwidth for no less than $2/GB that works out to ~$20000+ StreamCast paid for users to download Morpheus just last week. That bandwidth doesn't count their web traffic, the cost of web infrastructure, or management/maintenance of it. (I admit, with Morpheusp they have no overhead for development) So if you think companies are greedy just because they expect some revenues for their development efforts, you're ignorant. Grow up and understand that people work for money, not for your pirating pleasure. |
DM! Say what you have to say but without insults! Morgwen |
DM, are you kidding? There are lots of open source clients more popular than that. Sourceforge supplies a lot of that bandwidth, and so does rpmfind, freshmeat etc... No reason to have a profit when everyone contributes a little code and a little bandwidth. Isn't that what true P2P is all about? Swabby has been more like a software director lately just inserting patches people have sent him. This is cool. The RIAA can't do anything about open source clients, you can't stop people from modifying and using their own source code. Commercial for profit clients are the weak link. If some way is found to DOS the network, a patch can be posted and the DOS attack stopped in minutes! There are free web servers, mirrors, and the Gnucleus "evolver" will shortly be using P2P to distribute updates! P2P is free! Let's keep it that way! |
lurker here but sounds interesting i am game windows 98 + dial up + 65m ram + 4000 files + hours of playtime how do i get started not a programer where is th program? |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Unregistered [B]DM, are you kidding? There are lots of open source clients more popular than that. QUOTE] You're trying to tell me that there are open source clients more popular than (the o/s) Morpheusp? All the other open source clients in the world combined do not move the kind of bandwidth StreamCast does. I think it's typical of clueless developers to think that any kind of coding talent is going to give themselves away to some "good Samaritan" o/s project. If you want to try it, do it, stop talking about it. If you want a P2P app to get big, you will incur huge costs, case closed. If you want to recoup those costs, you will find a revenue stream. Mod- sorry about the offensive post, i'll tone it down in the future |
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Gnucleus and the other open source clients are big enough, and I doubt that Swabby (John) has incurred the huge costs you mention. After you finish pulling your foot out of your mouth, you might want to try one of the open source clients, they're pretty darned good. The RIAA can wipe out the for-profit companies, but they can never get rid of the open source on the Internet, no matter how hard they try. A for-profit client on a file sharing network? Like that's really gonna fly. Gnutella is here to stay and so are musicians. They might as well use the best distribution medium around - Gnutella. If they want to get paid, well then there is PayPal. I'm certainly willing to make a donation to the cause, and I'm sure many others are, too. |
Your idea is morally good but, I think your missing the 'big picture'. Your idea of an 'opensource protocol' is mis-guided. Gnutella IS an open protocol. the use of the protocol is free for anyone to use. The idea that one cannot recoup expenses incured to foreword their program/servant cannot be controlled by you. It would be nice to have a network created by an open protocol that allowed only those who provided a free servants to connect but, we already have it(Gnutella), with one exception. The word 'open' does not guarrantee that only free servants can use the protocol. because free is free and companies like Vinnie's(bearshare) like free stuff to and cannot help but to put their hands in the cookie jar. Basically what i'm saying is this: the use of an 'opensource' protocol is just that, free to use that protocol for communication between servants, but you cannot stop someone from offering(for money) a servant that uses that 'open' protocol. remember, the protocol is just the way the servants communicate, it is not the servant itself, and as was stated in a post above, if you start blocking other servants, be them free or a for cost servant, then you are no better than bearshare, which prefers to connect to itself(other bearshares). |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DM [B] Quote:
Morgwen |
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DM is right to create the very best you need money and resources even linux companies like Red Hat and Mandrake make $$$ alot of the money they make goes into development of linux. Some Linux projects survive on donations and etc to make money. Somehow i find it hard to believe that many here pushing for open source gnutella network would donate any money to aid in it. As for the open source network.. Great if some people like you morgwen, moak, your groupies and others think that a 100% open source/open network is the key then by all means create a network thats just open source and open network instead of trying to force radical changes on gnutella like that every program must be open source the whole commerical programs are bad, "dont partcipate with bearshare or limewire" and etc.. Do i personally think it will work.. No based on what happen on gnutella in the past. You see before bearshare and limewire were gnutella programs gnutella was really ran on really entirely on open source and small closed source programs.. The network was losing users, there was no organization amoung the developers at all and the network almost died. I still remember the news stories predicting the death of gnutella in a couple of months.. I didnt work back then and i dont think it will work now.. But thats me.. However if strict standards are forced then really its no different than fasttrack with all programs doing the same thing but have different names.. Also i hope that it starts its own development and not just be an exact copy of gnutella.. |
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Seph read the posts before you post! Morpheus has ads like limewire and bearshare! BUT because Limewire is open source there is a CLEAN limewire version! I think there will be a CLEAN Morpheus versiontoo or the people will use Gnucleus! :) But bearshare... who really cares about it! Morgwen |
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Will programs like limewire and morpheous which are commerical programs be welcomed on this open source network if they choose? I believe that users can create private networks with limewire and change the handshake in options.. "clean" verisons are not the source of any development all they do is take open source and even closed source programs and repackage it into a new installer. Plenty of users care about Bearshare of course not many visit here. Maybe its because this forum is unwelcoming to bearshare users.. The phrase that was once spread about this forum being "open to all users of gnutella" seems more like a marketing ploy than reality. Because this place really isnt welcoming to everybody.. Look at all the bashing of bearshare and even pathetic personal attacks against its developer that goes on.. I dont care i support a better file sharing [www.zeropaid.com]site[/url] where all users & opinions really are welcome.. |
Everybody is welcome here... and everybody is allowed to say his opinion here... like on zeropaid too! But you should now there are always two sides of view not only yours! I saw VERY MANY flamers against vinnie there... Ans you vinnie comes here and flame on the users and they flame back its human... they didnīt flame to other developers - I wonder why? Perhaps they are more diplomatic? Its normal that the users donīt agree with all developer decisions but it is NOT normal that the developer flame on them!!! And nobody here flamed on a bearshare user... And yes I think you and vinnie are trolls, because you say I am and I say you are so what? But you and vinnie are not users... So tell me your point? Do you think we want now to pray Vinnie is the best like zeropaid started? I think everybody is allowed to say his opinion, the only rule is to say it without flames - I edit "ALL" posts with flames Vinnies too! Now go to zeropaid if you think they tell there more bearshare propaganda! Morgwen |
Oh yes, since Sean is on ZP... Bearshare doesn't name ZP evil anymore. what a suprising change... but, Sean is a mod without background and speaking holy every single word of Vinnieborg. |
We have learned what greed does for gnutella and now it's time for the greed to leave. It would be easier for limewire and bearshare to leave, they already have their own little network. BEARSHARE CONNECT/0.6 LIMEWIRE CONNECT/0.6 This would be easy. But they use the efforts of others as a back up plan to keep their market happy and so no way they are leaving. See what morpheus did when they had a problem? Jump on the first thing they could grab to keep their $$$ market. Think of what would happen if the "BearShare network" was just bear only and vinnie put out a new version that screwed up downloads. People would jump the boat in a minute. Can't have $$$ that! Greed sucks and doesn't belong on gnutella. So either the $$$ clients leave, or the "outsiders" have to go. With the connect string specifically stating OPENSOURCE it's hard for some closed source greedy people to come there, and with the rule/law of no $$ profit applied by the clients blocking them, then there will be no war for market share and no clustering, domination and so on. Those who share files know that their files are going to other people without some third party making a buck off their efforts. I don't see anything wrong with several of the clients with most of the base code being the same. Some may have features that others don't, and that is ok too. Someone is always going to try to make a buck off of this, so clients have to block it as much as is possible or greed will slip in again. Now, on to the other problem with greed. Let's say, and just for fun, a court orders bearshare to send out a spy packet that shuts off all bearshare clients, and you know the RIAA would love to do this right now. We don't know if the spy packets can do that, but I bet it's in there because vinnie loves to control everything and hates it when you run old copies of his software. Or worse, vinnie is offered a new $500,000 corporate housing unit on the beach if he spies on every user and reports that to the RIAA or is paid to screw things up or just leave. If it was open source, he couldn't have spy packets or spy on people because everyone would see it in his code. The way it is now we have busted him on several things he has done, who knows what else is in there. If it was open source someone could offer the author $$$ but for what? He can't do anything and if he did someone else would post a patch in 10 minutes to take it out. The RIAA/MPAA greedmongers have no control over open source not for profit clients! If they shut one site down that has the code, another will pop up in the next minute. Plus the code can be shared over the network. Let them try to stop that. Limewire is a little different, and they aren't clustering as bad as vinnie is, and they can't because people would see it in the code and laugh them out of existence. They have to make a buck and so they come up with full blown XML because they have 5 developers working on it and know that small developers can't compete. It backfired! The problem is even vinnie with all his $$ can't code the XML easy so no one else is using it, thus limewire only works with limewire and it's all a bunch of marketing/investor hype anyway. Plus it's a waste of time for everyone to develop their own code when you could have one set of code as a base and have people put features on top of that. Then it doesn't take a whole corporation with CFO's and paper pushers all over the place to make a few new features. Everyone will be welcome to download a free client and get on the OpenSource P2P Net. We hope they will also contribute some ideas, code or even "skins" to improve the client(s). BearShare hasn't promoted Gnutella, it has promoted "The Bear$hare Network". It's not a community, it's a BearShare community. About the same with Limewire but not as bad. Commercial clients will be blocked. Greed doesn't work in this situation. The RIAA works on greed and legally can't do anything if a buck isn't made. They can pull dirty tricks like DOS attacks, but then we have them by the balls. P2P is about sharing, let's share the code, share some ideas and keep it free! Besides all the politics, this network is moving forward. It's not a sporting event, it's not that this will be the #1 "winning" network. It's not that it will have the most files available or even the most users. It's not a race. It's that this network will be the only "open and free" P2P network left after everyone gets sued or forced out of existence. Then all the MP3 sharing people will jump on the bandwagon, when it's the last resort, just like they always do. So Morgwen, Moak and other people with a vision of the future, are your nodes ready yet? Even a modem user could post his IP every day if it changes to help kick this off. Most cable modems keep the same IP for more than 30 days. Very small amount of bandwidth at first anyway so you can run this along with the other programs you like to run. Nice thing about this board, you can post your IP without signing in if you like your privacy. |
How many other developers have people posting borg pictures and constant stream of bashing?? I cant name any others. Hell find me anyone who could put up with people flaming them constantly for a very long time and not get ****ed once. Developers are humans too... Do i think you should edit all no but maybe as moderator you could grow up and not partcipate in them.. BTW dont flame zeropaid. Ive been visiting that site almost a year before bearshare was out.. All programs are treated equally, nothing is influenced and most of it has to do with users summiting news and partcipating on the site. You just told me to leave so im not welcome here, and called me a troll because i dont agree with you on many things so your comment that everyone is welcome here and everyone is allowed to say their opinion is oviously a lie. Quote:
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Hey Sephiroth,you bored by any chance?trying to drag Gnutella Forums down to the same level as Bearshare.net?It's not gonna happen pal,so move on,deal with it and get back to sucking up to Vinnie(promoting Bearshare) |
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And you will tell me I am a mod here and I have to shut up? Hey Sephiroth you are a bearshare.net VIP and YOU ARE ONE OF THE LOUDEST THERE! And YOU can tell your opinion here but I will ALWAYS comment it as YOU do my post on bearshare.net! If you are only able to write your opinion without any critic you should really stay on bearshare.net - here we have other thinking people (me too) and WE will tell our opinion... And you are a liar, what was a few weeks ago... zeropaid was a bearsahre foe... Vinnie donīt want to give them an interview and NOW after Xolox is dead and zeropaid has a new mod who likes bearshare and Vinnie - NOW zeropaid is a nice side, yes I see! ONLY sides that pray Vinnies words are friendly... And yes bearshare users are welcome here, but they should know if they start a political discussion like YOU they will be commented... if they need help we help them! And Sephiroth donīt forget we have here NO censorship or secrets forums like bearshare.net... we discuss all points in public - and do not move or delete the posts! Morgwen |
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quote Vinnie: Yes Morgwen, you are a ****ing imbecile This is a flame!!! And Moaks borg picture is a joke... If you donīt know the difference between irony and flames, its your problem! I have to repeat we donīt censor OPINIONS here ONLY flames! So stop your whining... Morgwen |
For all of the programers out there hate gnutella and want to do something I suggest that you go over to www.freenetproject.org and help out with the most powerful COMMERCIAL FREE protocol there is. Freenet really is the future of the internet. |
STRATEGIC ANTI BEARSHARE CYBERWAR ALLIANCE (SABCA) Weaken important structures of the enemy: 1) Crash BS peers providing incoming connections 2) Prevent BS downloads files 3) Stop webpage and propaganda of the enemy 4) Decrease enemy's user base 5) Secret intelligence work Improve the strength of our own forces and allies: 6) Improve technologies and find more programmer and hacker 7) Improve alternative Gnutella protocol and clients of allies to 1) Crash BS peers providing incoming connections A modified Gnutella client "Freedom" will connect continously to the BS hostcaches (with faked BS identification) and hunt; another modified client "Honour" (also faked BS ID) which will sneak into the BS network and keeps steady connections to as many enemies as possible, fools and attacks them. One single Freedom and one single Honour communicate and work with each other. In future it might become necesarry to coordinate communication between many Honour clients. Freedom collects as much as possible IPs of BS peers with incoming connections ('not firewalled'), crashing them will make connecting to the BS network much harder. Additional Freedom acts as a TTL2 crawler and searchs for long alive BS peers with incoming connections, crashing them is our primary target and will segment BS network into smaller networks or bring it to deadlock. Peers with incoming connections are rare, destroying them will hurt downloads an functionality of the enemy's network. As soon as BS comes with Supernodes, they will be high primary target! Crashing peers can be performed with a various number of (distributed) denial of service attacks. a) Flooding the peer's TCP/IP stack with connection attempts and fill as many as possible ports for a longest time (Freedom has to inform other Honour clients to flood an enemy peer and Honuor itself will abuse the enemies with wrong descriptors to attack their own troups). b) Running an OS detection and crash the oponnent's PC with an exploit. Many hosts do still run Windows98, Bearshare runs not on Linux. c) Freedom and Honour can direct attack peers if a known weakness inside the BS clients itself is detected. Software is never fault safe, finding an easy possibility to crash BS clients is only a matter of time. Notes: Ensure that Freedom and Honour can distinguish between friend and foe, make them shock proof! Enemies (including RIAA) may not be allowed to modify our tools and abuse them to target against our own allies (no open source, use checksums/scambler against modifications with hexeditor and debugger). This point is critical! Our technical service will advice you, our secret service informs about any danger of stealing or of abusing our technology. to 2) Prevent BS downloads files A modified client "Honour" will replace as much as possible important BS peers. Typically Honour should provide incoming connections for other BS clients, our technical service will advice you about firewall and router settings. Honour will route every traffic but _no_ Pushs, it will also fake _any_ Queryhit, containing IP/ports of BS clients to become crashed ("Freedom" will deliver them), it will also fake _any_ Hash and set Metadata to wrong values while routing. Download of files will become hard or impossible after PUSHs are eliminated on the enemy's network. Aditionaly, hundreds of faked Queryhits will tell BS clients to flood one of their own peers, causing it's brakedown. Additionally, a programmer team will post patches for all known client to block BS clients from connection and download. Spread those patches on all known places and update if allied clients (or enemies behaviour) is modified. Our technical service will support you. Notes: Ensure that Honour connect only to BS clients, make it shock proof! Allies networks have to keep safe from traffic modification as far as possible. We expect the enemy will modify it's own clients to detect our Honour clients, constantly debugging and adjustment of our technology is required. to 3) Stop webpage and propaganda of the enemy A tiger team has to hack into the enemy's webpage -or- flood it with denial of service attacks. Honour clients with some extra bandwith might launch steady floddings on the webpage (secondary target) and generate fake Querhits to stop the enemy's home propaganda. Do not attack the BS hostcaches, they are currently of important strategic meaning for our own forces! Additionally, civil helpers will inform users about the disadvantages of the enemy's client and behaviour. The enemy's home and well known filesharing portals are destinations for placing information. to 4) Decrease enemy's user base This is the goal of our mission. Once the enemy's user base is drastically reduced, they are running out of spyware reinforcements. Every taken action, civil or cybermilitary, has to make BS less attractive! Honour clients with some extra bandwith might launch floddings on random users clients (secondary target) and drop random incoming connections time by time, so cause the BS network to be more unstable in the eyes of it's users. Additionally, civil helpers will inform users about the advantages of our allies. The enemy's home and well known filesharing portals are destinations for placing information, news artiles, reports and screenshots. Positive counter propaganda is very important to decrease the enemy's user base. to 5) Secret intelligence work Classified, members only. Contact our technical support, currently searching virus and network specialists. to 6) Improve technologies and find more programmer and hacker Maintainance and devlopment of our tools is most important! Join the allience today and fight the filesharing evil! We need all type of skills and support, from average user up to skilled programmer or cyberwarrior. Please contact us! to 7) Improve alternative Gnutella protocol and clients of allies Join civil projects to develop an alternative Gnutella network. Help to improve our allies! More information available in our civil brochure. Free gnutella! ----- PS: only theory... don't be scared BS trolls. |
Oh yeah I subscribe... I'll offer an Gnutella virus that will distribute himself and only infects BS clients... after a specific period of time and number of infections it will delete BS and installs an free servent. Oh the codename of this virus will be "Justice"! Yeah, eat this. |
About all the vinnie and you crap i dont care im not vinnie thats between you two and really has nothing to do with me.. As for the following I dont see how its a joke.. Is it a joke because you say its a joke? Maybe the "flame" against you is just a joke as well then.. You even admitted in a bearshare.net thread that you "make fun" of vinnie here and its ok.. Bullet i posted here a while back really my opinions on gnutella issues namely anti-freeloading restricitions and was flamed by Morgwen and moak called names like a "troll" back then too for really posting my opinions.. Which is why i left this place and havent came back until now.. If you agree with those two than you can get along great but if you dont then your a troll and your posts are considered "whining" Also you havent been "censored" at the bearshare forums.. Im not the "loud VIP" I have always posted MY opinion about File Sharing since napster and will always continue to post MY opinion. Im not going to jump on every bandwagon that comes through town nor will i be told what to say by anyone.. Quote:
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I remember you called me and other VIPs on bearshare for this opinion troll too! So now we are all trolls... I have to repeat ALL users are welcome here! But we have not to accept all opinion without comments! Morgwen |
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When you start talking about launching personally motivated DoS attacks on one client (and millions of innocent computer users) you make me hope that you would end up in jail. You and some other folks here might think that BearShare is evil, and that greed "sucks", but leave the users of the software who enjoy its service to themselves. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that millions of others don't. Greed does not "suck". Greed is the foundation for capitalism. Capitalism is the reason why you get to sit in your comfy chair in front of your x-thousand dollar computer and spread your socialist rhetoric. If you don't like commercial software, go move to China, and write viruses there. |
DM, Sephiroth and Morgwen, flamewar, thanks for screwing up this thread. |
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Morgwen was an ardent Bearshare supporter, and Vinnie managed to alienate even him. This, unfortunately, is evidence of an increasingly malevolent Bearshare "culture". Bearshare contributed a lot to the growth of Gnutella in the past, but Free Peers is now on the verge of becoming a hinderance to Gnutella as a whole. Do you really expect people to tolerate something that threatens the Gnet? |
I agree. Think it's Really funny, since something very close to the above is happening with "fake" hosts on bearshare. Sending out huge returns on popular files that you cannot download. Wonderful 'tude here guys. Bearshare is the only Gnutella client that runs on my PC.....don't ask me why. I've tried them all. So bomb me, who shares 3000 files with any one who wants them. Even the hammerin', greedy sots using Morpheus. Maybe I'll take my files back to WinMX....Gnutella attitude sucks...across the board apparently. Quote:
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The new modified Gnucleus (1.6.3) and more info for the OpenSource P2P Net is now at http://snow.prohosting.com/openp2p/ No greed! |
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