What is going on in America?
 

Dear American forum members

What is going on over there, the news is that the whole system of government is being held to ransom by a bunch of right-wing "Tea Party" loonies.

If this is true then someone has got to get a grip of the situation before the American and world economies go down the drain.



UK Bob

um......yeah....

more like the country is being held hostage by a childish wanna be dictator...

The Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution states that the US will pay its debts.

Even Sen McCain is fed up with the TP, and says that, "One way or another, our debt ceiling will be raised...", (as it was raised seven times for Bush, four times for Clinton, and I think under Reagan they did it 17 times!).

It is quite disappointing to see our politics in such a sad state. The Republicans have no good leadership. I doubt M. Bachman could pass our citizenship test (and I imagine most Brits know our history better than she). It seems no one wants to make a strong effort when they'll likely lose to Obama.

Repubs got control of Congress on a jobs agenda. Yet they have spent their time in government giving tax breaks to the rich and subsidies to oil companies; while fighting same-sex marriage, abortion, unions, and anything Obama wants to do. Not one jobs bill. Taxes are the lowest they've been in 100 years, while the job market is the worst I've see in my lifetime. (I recently returned to a part-time teaching job that pays the same rate as when I last worked there - 15 yrs ago (and they pay a higher rate than their competetors!).

ObamaCare was Richard Nixon's idea - made less socialistic (Nixon wanted all employers to pay for healthcare). The Bush plan called for forcing everyone to buy insurance; that and his "public option" are necessary to make the system work. But like every other Republican idea that Obama wants to put into practice, suddenly it's an horrific idea that "the American people don't want" (so they tell us).

After Sir Paul received a medal from Obama, he said that, "Billions of people are supporting you and hope for your success". Alas, I don't think enough Americans understand the message.


Any hope of R Murdoch going to jail? Another of Nixon's ideas; to use a television news channel as a propaganda medium. (Funny how people still refer to the news media as left-wing, jewish-controlled, and having a liberal bias.)

Hi Blackhorse 70 (& Peerless)

First of all about Murdoch, it is highly unlikely that Murdoch or his son John will ever see the inside of a jail cell, it is more likely that a few more minions are likely to be done for phone hacking and maybe email interception (I don't know yet what these infringements are called, i.e. what laws are broken).

As for America, something is broken and it seems, from this side of the ocean, that a bunch of loonies are holding the country to ransom for their own political ends.

But what I cannot understand is, whether you like the current president or not, to take such a suicidal stand, with the country's well being at stake, is just sheer insanity. Saying that, this is what happens when intolerant (and borderline crazy) people are voted into positions of power that they should not have in the first place, they hold the country, and the world economy, hostage because they cannot see or feel anything beyond their own noses.



UK Bob

Our government systems work somewhat differently. But over here, for bills that require money to be spent on them, need the senate committee's approval. If the senate & house of representatives are different political parties, then the senate can hold the government in power to ransom. That's happened over here several times. The worst scenario was in the 1970's with Whitlam's Labor government. He had some fantastic ideas, but could not achieve anything because the liberal party who held the power in the senate would not approve of any spending on his ideas. Whitlam ended up quitting.

It's certainly strange seeing our AUD worth more than the US dollar. In previous years our dollar was usually worth US $0.80-$0.90. Presently AUD $ 1.00 = US $ 1.10 (spaced out to beat censor lol)

We have HealthCare here. This is similar to what Obama wishes to introduce. Many countries in the world have a similar system, but USA is behind the times. I can imagine many people see the system as socialistic with negative thoughts for that reason. I am aware the USA pharmaceutical companies 'hate' our system with a passion. They cannot dictate prices, cannot advertise medicines on TV that over here require a doctor's prescription first. I have no doubt the USA pharmaceutical companies are among the loudest & influential attempting to stop the new health system being introduced.
Hilarious. The part about the history I mean. :D

Most Traumatic Times in Australia
 

Hi LOTR

You know, I always thought that the most traumatic event to take place in Australia, in recent times, was the dismissal of the Gough Whitlam's Labor government by Sir John Kerr in 1975, the Governor-General at the time.


UK Bob

Thanks for the accuracy. Yes that's what happened. The government was dead-locked & couldn't do anything due to the power of the senate who were preventing the government achieving anything, the government couldn't move.

I get the impression something vaguely similar is presently happening in the USA political arena.

For the USA at least, results sometimes being compromises which basically ruin the agenda. Or compromise to agree to one bill with changes (that weaken it), if the party in power agree to something else in exchange which was against their original ideas, such as other bills going the opposition way. This seems to be what I've been able to ascertain in discussions with USA persons over the past year. We need some USA persons on here to clarify this. ;)

The two things that Americans really don't want to know:
How sausages are made and how bills are passed.

The difference being that a bad sausage makes you sick for only a day.

My grandfather returned to Australia after the USA company owner called him in one day & offered him a manager's job at a sausage factory to start up over here. He was not keen on our family eating sausages. lol

good God....such brainwashed rhetoric about the tea party and the GOP....sheeshus on a stick!

it's simple...the people in general do not want higher taxes and that will require spending cuts...and most likely the loss of jobs for some government employees (just like the rest of America)...the Chicago Gangster on the other hand wants a blank check to keep on raising the debt (which will take decades to pay off)...

I've never had insurance in my life, and I rather refuse to be forced to buy private insurance (which is what (n)Obama Care is...)if it was true socialized medicine then my thoughts would probably be different....

Raising the debt limit is not a blank check. Indeed, the measure requires a specific dollar amount. Typically, it is a one-paragraph bill. It does not include any increase in spending; it simply covers the bills that are due.

Americans do want to raise taxes - on the rich, oil companies, etc., who should pay their fair share. The House Crier, er Speaker, keeps saying that we should not raise taxes on job creators - but where are the jobs? (They got their tax breaks more than a decade ago!). The Repubs have not offered a single bill to stimulate job growth.

Senate rules require that any measure that increases spending or decreases revenue must be limited to ten years or less, or else the government has to show how we'll pay for it. That's why Bush set his tax breaks for the rich to expire in 10 yrs - so he wouldn't have to show how we'll pay for it. The Republicans cry "raising taxes", as though when a retail store ends a Sale, reverting back to the original price, the shoppers claim, "They're raising prices!" No, it's just the end of the Sale.

Bush's wars - not included in his budget! (The "war" in Iraq was supposed to pay for itself - we would be getting oil revenues. Well, oil didn't get any cheaper. And now I hear we're building schools and hospitals there. Sounds good, until you remember that Iraq sits on the third largest oil deposits on the planet. They do not need our help to rebuild.)

Remember the "Death Tax"? Republicans had everyone convinced that their estates would be taxed upon their death, robbing their children of their due. Did they mention that the tax would apply only to estates worth over one million dollars? Another break only for the rich.

Remember the "Death Panels", or, "Obama wants to kill your mother"? The measure allows people like my mother to use her insurance to speak with her doctor about her end-of-life choices (something that her insurance company would not pay for, claiming that such meetings with physicians was not necessary patient care).

The loss of government jobs that you mention, results in more unemployed (who are in turn unable to support local businesses, pay off debts, etc). In my city, four of our Superior Court departments are closing. A lot of people will be out of work. And it is estimated that it will now take five years to bring a case into civil court. Another means to help the rich (poor people have a harder time surviving while awaiting their turn in court).

When you need medical care do you pay for it out-of-pocket? I did not have insurance. When I became ill I could not affort to pay for a doctor's visit. My condition worsened until I was admitted to hospital with pneumonia. The taxpayers could have saved many $ had I been able to receive treatment before it became an emergency.

The first time I heard the provisions of ObamaCare, it was an idea voiced by the Governator himself, a Republican! San Francisco provides health insurance to the poor by way of a small tax added to meals. The system works well. Yes, it does add to the cost of dining out, but the cost to each of us is far less than using taxes to pay for the poor to use Emergency Depts.

I am quite bothered by the current vindictiveness expressed in inflamatory speech when discussing matters of state. It's the worst I've seen in my lifetime. I was the Denver Coordinator of Vietnam Vets Against the War during Nixon's reign. We hated Nixon, but preferred to attack him on his politics, rather than his personality, appearance, etc. We relied on the truth, rather than lying to people in order to sway them. And we never referred to him as a "gangster".

When Pelosi proved to be the most effective Speaker in the past 50 yrs she was attacked on her looks. I'm tired of the likes of Palin referring to "the lame stream media", (though I would have to agree if she were talking about Fox).
Pease explain what the "(n)" before Obama represents.

Guys

Let us not let this thread degenerate into flaming or name calling, please let us stick to the issues at hand.

LOTR

Although the 1975 crises seems similar to the deadlock now freezing up the American system I would honestly say that what is happening now is far more serious.

You see, because all our western banks are intertwined, with various debt and loan swaps, cross ownerships and other monetary deals, an American default could have a devastating effect on all those ordinary people, like myself, who are pensioners, mortgage holders, small savers, etc. Billionaires and Millionaires can move their money, at the flick of a switch, to outside the affected areas, i.e. America and Europe.

The Australian economy is doing very well because your exports outweigh your imports and your banks, as far as I know, did not get involved in the madness (dodgy dealings) that swept Europe and American banks.

:xirokrotima: You never know, I may end up asking you to send me food parcels :laugh_2:

Blackhorse 70 & Peerless

The Tea Party's lunacy is well known throughout the English speaking world and, like all loony organisations, they did not get their fame (well, infamy) by being reasonable.

I just want to say that democracy is about the ability to be reasonable and to compromise for the greater good, no country became or remained great by committing suicide.

You know, despite the currents problems America is still a great country that other countries look up to, it's a place that people run to not away from so don't let a bunch of loonies, backed by a corrupt right wing media, press the self-destruct button.


UK Bob

Health care system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Country comparison)

Medicare (Australia) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Healthcare in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Medicare (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Health care reform in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010. Seems the Obamacare plan is considerably different to ours. The overall concept including prior arrangements is quite complex by the looks.

AFAIK in Australia everyone is covered by Medicare unless you fall over a particular financial income bracket. At the bottom end financial bracket here, some visits to doctors are free, some medicine may be reduced by over 70-90% in price. Hospital treatment might also be free.

That is for general public health treatment. If you wish to use private hospitals & doctors who do not off medicare rebates, then you are expected to use private health insurance. Advantage will usually be private rooms in hospital & probably shorter waiting times for surgery waiting lists. Some hospitals are private hospitals only. General hospitals are highly funded by state & federal governments. I believe hospitals work considerably differently in the USA. :(

"Australia: All legal permanent residents are entitled to government-paid public hospital care. Treatment by private doctors is also paid by the government when the doctor direct bills the Health Department (Bulk Billing). Medicare is funded partly by a 1.5% income tax levy (with exceptions for low-income earners), but mostly out of general revenue. An additional levy of 1% is imposed on high-income earners without private health insurance. There is an uncapped 30% subsidy on private health insurance. As well as Medicare, there is a separate Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme under which listing and a government subsidy is dependent on expert evaluation of the comparative cost-effectiveness of new pharmaceuticals. In 2005, Australia spent 8.8% of GDP on health care, or US$3,181 per capita. Of that, approximately 67% was government expenditure."

% of health costs paid by government (World Health Report 2000,):
Australia 67.7, Norway 83.6, UK 81.7, USA 45.4

I notice Norway has 80% more nurses per 1000 persons than countries like ours. lol :D