This might interest gnutella users
 

Gnutella over i2p seems to be now possible. First "working" alpha of i2phex has been released.

Speeds are reported to be decent. Though install and setup are a little involved. Still anonymous secure gnutella filesharing is here at last.

The i2p-gnutella Network is bound to grow. The i2p network itself seems to be growing once more, since the release of azureus 2.3.0.0, users seem to be joining the i2p network.

I2p now has several major filesharing solutions.

Bittorrent
Gnutella
Quartermaster(which is a distributed data store, similar to freenet)

It's communication features are impressive as well.

irc
jabber
gnutella client to client chat
forums

Even websites are hosted anonymously and securely over it.

All these features and types of networking work much better and faster than they do through tor.

Anyways back to gnutella related details. After trying i2phex you might ask what's so different, it doesn't seem slower, or have more features than standard gnutella clients. The big difference is the i2p network and it's features.

A example of gnutella-i2p speed, about 2mb transferred between two clients in roughly 2 minutes. Considering how the networking resources are distributed and the client's bandwidth limit settings that is really impressive at least for gnutella.

While most gnutella users are not expected to upgrade right away, anyone interested in testing and helping to develop it would want to check it out this early on.

Oh and lest I forget, gnutella-i2p is a port of gnutella to i2p, there is no bridge between the two and probably never will be, as gnutella-i2p is to be considered a (desperately needed) security upgrade. No more need for complicated marginally effective ipfiltering, blocklists, tricks, etc. Anyways in order to use i2phex you must be running a i2p node/router.

Why bother with unsafe, vulnerable gnutella networking, now that an upgrade exists. Now there is finally a choice.

Further details and links concerning i2p, i2phex and anonymous secure filesharing can be found at Planetpeer Forums.

Re: This might interest gnutella users
 

Do, do, do explain - Precisely - exactly - EXACTLY - how internet connections are maintained with anonymity.

Re: Re: This might interest gnutella users
 

The anonymity and security is handled by the i2p network, there are details concerning how on thier website. The website explains such things far better than I could, really there is no need for people posting to forums to submit such details. Additionally for live discussion concerning i2p, there are irc channels. Also you could check out thier forums as well.

If you are already familiar with the tor project, then simply put this is a simular encrypted anonymising overlay network, only it works much better and has decent client applications, better internal websites, etc.

You should give us a direct link to the thread in question rather than to the main index. ukbobboy01 has posted about how no matter what precautions you take you will leave your footprint no matter what. Every site you visit via your browser, etc. So .. need a bit more of a specific reference to show us to make your point.

spunkyone9r

You seem to be selling smoke and mirrors, i.e. something that has no substance.

As Ursula and LOTR have both said, where is the beef? (Apologise if you guys are vegetarians.)

Spunkyone9r, unless you can come up with or can point to something that explains how i2p can render its users anonymous then you just come across as another one of a long line of vendors pushing vapourware.



UK Bob

First I'm not selling anything. Second I'm not a vendor. Finally I didn't write i2p nor had anything to do with it's development.

As to the question where's the beef. The beef is on thier website, all details concerning i2p and how it works is there.

I2p is open source, freely availible, doesn't cost a dime. There is nothing about it that is even close to being considered vapourware like. Just because you can't be bothered to spend a few seconds and visit it's website, doesn't make something vapourware.

Also I pointed out that I'm not the best person to explain all the detail concerning i2p and for that matter there is no good reason I should have to, certainly when they are all posted on the project's website.

Of course I shouldn't expect anything much from you guys, after all it's likely anyone that can understand the project is already running the application... which explains why there are only a couple hundred people running it. Most filesharers these days are just not that bright. :(

Despite repeated requests you've failed to point us anywhere except a forum. So are we & others expected to believe heresay.

I agree that the OP is a little too euphoric and
I2P is a project in progress i.e., unfinished. However, that's no excuse for being so harsh
and ignoring the explanations:

http://www.i2p.net/home
http://www.i2p.net/how_tunnelrouting

However, I don't think that the common user of a filesharing network needs anonymity and I2P
will be much slower on average than the
usual way. Unfortunately, P2P has become a synonym for illegal filesharing.

Hell, if people gave a **** about security they
would use real operating systems, encrypt
their mails and wouldn't execute random files. Hey, you can have all of that for free and legally!
Who cares? I'll tell you: Nobody.

The common filesharers do need anonymity, it's at least desireable to anyone sharing pr0n, cracks or anything copyrighted. As to I2P's speed sure on adverage it is marginally slower, due to the encryption and routing, however it's still faster than tor and other simular projects. Really it slightly comprimises speed for safety and as a result there should be more content and sources (something most filesharing networks are greatly lacking).

True enough, most people don't give a **** about security and they pay heavy prices for such disregards. Problems (spam, virri, etc) with email are costing companies money and wasting users time.

Dear LOTR

I have just seen your note and have found the URL link I originally posted:

http://www.deckertechnology.net/tech....php?p=473#473

This link, as you know, explains why your IP address cannot be hidden.


spunkyone9r

I am sorry that you feel that I have attacked you and that you needed to strike back but that was not my intension.

However, there have been many advocates of new and emerging technologies over the past twenty or so years in the computer industry and, as you know, many of those technologies have come to nothing. iP2 maybe a new technology that will revolutionise the way we work and play over the internet but at the moment there is nothing that jumps out to say, “this is the way to go”.

And, forgive my dimness but, iP2 seems to require a lot of extra resources for an emerging yet unproven technology.

Until there is something more that can be demonstrated then iP2 is destined to stay in the realms of the enthusiast



UK Bob

Err, first of all it's name is i2p not ip2.

Anyways it isn't a unproven technology, it's a very actively developed project and has live working network which is very impressive.

Also the i2p-gnutella network has been growing nicely, so far at least 22 users have tried it, though the actual number of currently active peers is unknown (mostly due to some issues with the current version, which are going to be resolved in the next release).

Let me point out the i2p doesn't hide ip addresses at all, it doesn't try to do what is impossible. Instead it makes them no longer much of a issue, as all anyone can prove is that you are running a i2p node, not what any one specific node is transferring, nor which node belongs to any one specific member. Basically i2p has many perfectly legal uses (far more than any filesharing solution) and is more of a general networking privacy solution than a filesharing one.

So yeah the ip addresses are known, but so what in this case it just doesn't matter. Unless where you happen to live, they make it illegal to run i2p (only place in the world I can think of would be china).

Anyways the great thing about i2p is it'd be really hard to justify outlawing at least in countries like America.

The primary reason I struck back was because of the incorrect statements and assumptions that were being made. Nobody bothered to visit the project's website and read about what they were making judgements about.

Finally let me say I never claimed i2p hid ones ip address and I'm not sure why that was assumed.

This is one of the references to so called 'safe' anonymous use of p2p. It's the way you made it sound. I wasn't making assumptions, just asking for a direct link. Very simple thing to do rather than send us to the main page of a forum. This forum here is very large.

Fast transfer depends on connection speed for a start. Someone using dial up is not about to transfer 2 MB in 2 mins. But someone using any Gnutella client can transfer directly to someone else even much much faster if they have the appropriate connection speeds & settings.

It'll be interesting to see how the i2p project goes.

Uh that's true, however someone using dial up isn't likely to use i2p. The routing and such wasn't designed to work on such a limited connection. Considering most people are upgrading to broadband and leaving dialup behind, it's just another reason to get broadband.

Oh and from a dialup point of view regular gnutella, gnutella2, edonkey2000 and even kazaa are not too bad when it comes to sources and speeds. However on a broadband connection such networks and clients are too poor and limited. Which is why bittorrent is so popular.

Anyways i2p's coming along nicely as far as I can tell and unlike other networking applications it doesn't hog the connection and interfere with other activity like webrowsing (for example a poorly configured shareaza client will seriously fudge up webrowsing). The initial udp networking tests produced greater than expected results and hopefully will be ready for use by most/all of the network, which means i2p will scale much better.

spunkyone9r

So basically what you are telling us is if you have dialup it cannot be used.

Which BTW I believe more users are dialup than broadband at the present.

It's a novel idea idea, but I for one will wait, because I don't believe it is all you have made it out to be. I still don't see a direct link which has been asked for, nor do I see you registering as a member.

So why I should I believe anything you have posted is true.

Learn to read. First of all, "dialup" can be 3 Mbps DSL connection. What is meant, though, is 56Kbps and ISDN.
You can use those but it will be ******* slow. Everything
is ******* slow with such a connection. All you can do with that is leech, so forget about Bittorrent.

With that kind of attitude we'd still live on trees. I'd
also suggest to get them data to backup your claims. Dialup
vs. broadband is comparing apples with oranges. Nowadays
dialup is usually nothing but ADSL with bandwidths from
128kbps to 8Mbps. Those who still use 56kbps crap cannot use
filesharing properly at all anyways.

Well, stay on your tree then. Ever heard of the chicken & egg
problem?

Are you blind or just dumb?

This thread isn't about registering vs. not registering. Stay
on topic or shut up.

Hahaha! lol I used dial up with LW for 3 yrs. AFAIK this thread is not talking about Bittorrent! So I don't know why you mentioned it, it's off-topic & irrelevant. And Fabion made a very good point that most net users out there are dial up users. If not for dial up users, p2p would be very limited re: no. of users & files available. p2p is not & should not be restricted to those with adsl/cable. What an attitude. lol :D Bet you're a racist also huh! And talking about living in trees, a well educated person will know that any references they make should be properly defined & accurately given with direct links. eg: quote a statement from a book then you should supply the book & page no. details, etc.
To reiterate, asking for a direct link was & is not such a big deal! ;) :)

As far as I can tell there is no direct link to i2phex's website, mostly because it's hosted on i2p and cannot be accessed like a normal website. Though there is a inproxy for i2p and from there you should be able to reach i2phex's website.

A direct link to i2p's website was provided, if that helps any.

Really it helps to read through the forums which links were posted here.

Lol, someone actually visited the site, about time.

The developer does not really want too many people to use i2p until version 1.0, this the website contains some discouragements. Anyone that knows the software knows better, of course not many people do.

Put it this way if your looking to host/share kiddie pr0n, forget it. However for general filesharing it's security is more than good enough already. Let's face it there isn't much software out there that can provide a safe enviroment to share kiddie pr0n, though freenet is reported to be filled with it.

So does it yet provide protection from governmental organizations, no. However other types of private/public organizations are no match.

They certainly cannot prove enough to take anyone to court as they have a 1 in x chance of being correct, x being = to the size of the network. Over time as the network grows the x factor will become greater and thus the changes they are correct become more remote. Without reasonable certainty x being close to or equal to 1 they cannot legally justify taking anyone to court. Currently the x factor is around 200 or more, within the next few months the x factor will hopefully grow to 10,000 or more.

Plus there are plenty of perfectly legal uses for i2p. Actually running i2p is legally no different from just connecting to the internet, though it is much safer.

Re: Re: This might interest gnutella users
 

1st.... I am somewhat challenged to see just exactly how the above from me could be classed as 'aggressive'...

2nd.... I have not seen jack s hit about EXACTLY how one is supposed to connect with another computer, via the internet, without using an address...

The subject is changed as peripheral issues are mentioned... Issues that have absolutely nothing to do with 'anonymous' computer to computer connections via the internet.

We have been here before... It was all crap before and it's the same today...

These Gnutellaforums are awash with other posts trying to promote the same nonsense... Suggest that all read all the rest of the garbage on this same subject...

Anonymity on the internet is not real... It is a con... A chimera... A large dose of BS... Crap...

Enjoy p2p,
Relax...

HEY !!!


Beep Max !!!


Next ?

Gasoline from water, nicht wahr ?

:rolleyes:

Guys, big hint: The point of I2P is *not* hiding the IP address of directly connected nodes. That's technically
impossible. I doubt that you grasp what's meant with "anonymity" in this context. Does "mixmaster" ring any bells?
I guess not.

Take it from someone who's wasted too much time trying to educate such people.

Trying to educate most p2p filesharers is an exercise in futility.

The smart filesharers already don't use regular p2p applications. They adopted alternatives a good while back.

It's true hiding one's ip address is not possible, however making it no longer matter is and that has been well proven already, though most p2p filesharers simply won't do research on the issue themselves let alone want to do very much reading in general.

I classify those people as kaziots (ala kazaa users). Thus pay them no mind. For they are trolls and often unclean (have virii infected systems) and usually don't have anything worth sharing anyways.

Only reason people like us still try to educate anyone, is for the few rare filesharers that can be enlightened.

Heck most people still use internet explorer as thier primary webrowser. When much better alternatives exist (firefox, netscape 8, etc).

The trolls will always care about speed and quantity over quality and safety.

"... A person is smart, people are dumb scared animals and you know it..."not an exact quote for the first mib movie, but you get the point.

Seems this post has not really interested many people so far, really it's no big surprise, considering how little most people care about being targed by the **aa's and thier filesharing clients disrupted by isp's.

Still with the current i2phex version, the network is still around and there are some users.

i2p itself has undergone major changes recently and is scheduled to go through even more in the near future.

Things on the i2p network are rather unclean at that moment, many sites and services are down, there is a new irc network running over it.

i2phex also has changed some, it's website is currently down and it's developer is offline, probably just on vacation though. However i2phex users forge onwards regardless. i2phex now has it's own forum on planetpeer.de and it seems there are some people dedicated to providing services and distributions for it.

I did notice more documentation for i2phex has appeared lately, just the usual user guides, etc.

Also worth noting is this recent post on the i2p forums.

If that doesn't spark a flame war, well I don't know what will. ;)

Anyways recently some people have mentioned something troubling, seems the gnutella networks are having trouble? Sources disappearing, slow speeds, various client applications having even more problems than usual, wonder what is going on? Are people finally getting too fed up with them and just leaving? Have they simply moved on to bittorrent?

Given the state of other filesharing networks and clients, it probably isn't such a bad idea to use i2phex. Taking everything into consideration, i2phex actually comes out ahead of most other filesharing applications.

So far, I have found nothing that would not make me want to use it. Nobody has presented a strong and well informed case against it.

At the very worst, it's still better than using exceem, kazaa and the rest.

I just had alook at www.i2p.net. Opening Words:

"I2P is an anonymous network, exposing a simple layer that applications can use to anonymously and securely send messages to each other. The network itself is strictly message based (ala IP), but there is a library available to allow reliable streaming communication on top of it (ala TCP)"

This may all be very good, but what it has has to do with p2p file sharing I have no idea ..... oh and btw I'm not going to continue reading or contributing to this thread!

Wow. Tons of people are very silly on here.

Here is a couple points I will make:

1. *Users* - ignore this thread. Pay attention again when I2P is released.

2. *Developers* - At least take the time to understand what I2P is. It might be worth your time to make your gnutella client compatible with I2P. Azureus already has preliminary support for I2P integrated into their client. With I2P, IPs are replaced with Base64 definitions. So you would not be reinventing gnutella, just making it work over a different protocal.

I2P *does* have good documentation on their main site (it's not just a forum anymore, nor has it been for awhile):

http://www.i2p.net

Gnutella is itself a protocol. Most of the gnutella community work together to provide improvements that don't harm the network, don't cause unnecessary traffic, etc. in a most responsible way.

I don't see I2P doing that. For a start, it has tried to con people into believing it hides ip addresses when that isn't even possible. What else is it trying to con people with?

Why would the established single protocol programs deviate from their aims to do what some new kid on the block that knows little about community development desires. Why should everybody jump off what they've been doing to do what I2P wants to do. What is I2P anyway, an attempt at multinetworking, which it has been proved time & time again doesn't work properly. Somewhere along the chain, one network suffers. Just look at RAZA's lazy attempt & effect at joining the gnutella community has had. All networks need to be developed equally & without one particular network suffering as a result of more than one being used simultaneously. It simply doesn't work properly. A bit more research & you will realise what I mean. That's if you can be bothered of course. Yes some people have already seen other various program leeching techniques. Quote from the I2P site "People should not use I2P..." lol :D

Hummm.... If devs are implementing I2P, that might help make people against P2P make an argument that devs are encouraging copyrighted sharing by any means. If I don't want to be traced on the web, I'll use a simple proxy. If I want an anonymous P2P, I'll turn towards Freenet which has a good goal of a free internet to compensate censorship. I2P is NOT a transparent P2P and would not be a welcomed addition to a P2P. Too much room for abuse either by users or corporations.

Can you name a single P2P that integrated I2P by its main devs? What were their justifications, if any?

Also, as LODR points out, a protocol over another protocol isn't really a worthy solution most of the time...

Ciao

Okay. Let me try another approach. This thread turned pretty ugly pretty fast.

The only point of this thread was:

Gnutella Developers might want to research I2P. It can be learned about here:

http://www.i2p.net


As for examples of mainstream P2P devs that have already investigated and started using I2P, the main one is Azureus. Since 2.3, Azureus has had preliminary I2P support. Thier justification, anonymous BT.

I never said it hid IPs. I don't think anyone here did. I'm sorry if you were misled. Before you ask me how it's anonymous then, just go research it on it's site.

Again, this is not for users yet. If you are just a P2P user, I don't think it's worth your time to look into I2P yet. As stated: "People should not use I2P"

So please, let's keep this civil eh?

I'm really not some spam bot. You can check my Reg date on these forums for proof of at least some credibility :)

Hi isamoor,

Your info looks pretty good (along with what I already know about i2p).

The only problem is, that the changes in i2phex are extremely hard for the phex-maindev to use, because the programmer of i2phex denied cooperation (I had a discussion about this with GregorK).

I think it sad, that often it requires that type of people to get something running, but hey, that seems to be a fact of human psychology. :)

I'm quuite glad, that i2phex exists, and I hope, that such a step will be taken again (but maybe a bit more structured next time, we were quite exstatic when that guy first said, he'd try it, and I think, we'll try to do what we can to help building such a version of phex again, when the dev agrees to make the changes in such a way, that both projects profit, i2Phex and the standard Phex, which means that sharing of code must be possible).

Both i2phex and i2p have recently undergone major updates.

I2Phex has been tweaked for better transfers and been given a system tray feature. While i2p has had many bugfixes and gained much better network compatibility.

Anyone with a fast broadband connection is welcomed to come join the invisible gnutella network. As it is not really designed for dialup speeds.

The major problems that both i2p and i2phex had in previous versions are gone.

Remember unlikew with other gnutella clients, you do not need to run software like peerguardian, mess around with blocklists without being 100% protected. With invisible gnutella your ip address is not used and you do not even know the ip addresses of the other peers.

As the i2p network grows you gain greater protection and anonymity. With already over 400 peers and growing, now is a great time to join the network and become invisible.

You should maybe add a link...

Anyone interested can get it from my i2p based website.

For any developers that wish to review the code online, you can via the i2p cvs. http://dev.i2p.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/i2phex/

Anyone not running i2p can get the cvs import of it from here.
http://dev.i2p.net/i2p/

It also works on osx, so windows and Linux should pose no problem.

BUT: AFAIK This is still in a state, in which it might get damaged when too many Users flock to it, so please refrain from switching all your activities to it at once, till you get a go go in the i2Phex Forums:

http://forum.i2p.net/viewforum.php?f...861e51652db72f

Thanks!

i2phex is a quite good working anonymous gnutella client, and it is the first !

Does that mean nobody will be able to direct connect with i2phex? Does i2phex have direct connect abilities? Do i2phex users share & can other clients find their files? I've yet to see one. Just asking. :)
I realise there's only a small user-base at present.

dunno, see the start page maybe http://www.i2phex.tk or at i2p.net and follow the links to i2p forum and phex download options. I have tried it and it works very well to downlaod anonymously

you have to download the hostfile dat into c/documents/i2phex and restart all.

Oh I just realised it's not a true Gnutella client yet. http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...threadid=36954 My apologies. I did have a quick look thru the i2p forum. More time needed I guess.

How do you get to the conclusion, that it isn't a true gnutella Client?

Gnutella is a protocol, i2p is a network layer.

i2phex is Gnutella over i2p, using code from Phex.

And Phex is production-ready and full featured.

http://phex.org

Misunderstanding on my part! I hadn't read far enough into the forum & misunderstood the link I posted. :rolleyes: However the point I made about the ip query still stands.

* Very late edit not worthy of a new post: I did originally think it was as you suggested below being taken from the phex design. However my misunderstanding of the link left me thinking perhaps the gnutella implementation wasn't complete or fully functional. My mistake ... ignorance & lack of sufficient research.

As people told in i2p-forums, it seems to be possible. i2phex has direct-connect capabilities, but instead of ip:port it uses an abstract address, which can't be assigned to a crtain IP or person.