don´t show IPs please

Ringo Chen · #21 (**permalink**) September 8th, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by trap_jaw4
It's trivial to find out your real IP address in spite of hardware routers or LimeWire hiding the IP addresses in the GUI. You gain no protection whatsoever by hiding it.

You're absolutely correct. It's P2P folks .. Point 2 Point. all it takes is a sniffer and You can see exactly who the host is your dealing with. I think it only fair that IP's be shown. If you're not doing anything destructive .. then don't worry .... get a firewall or switch to linux

All IP's are traceable and are a matter of public record for a damn good reason. If people could hide their IP's think of all the crap people would do and never get caught.

No I'm sorry I don't agree with hiding IP's at all.

arne_bab · #22 (**permalink**) September 8th, 2004

All people can already hide their IPs.
They simply use freenet ( http://freenet.sf.net )

But that program isn't intended for filesharing, but for real freedom of information (you also don't know who really published the articles there, and it is *almost* impossible to find it out, even for police and similar.

Ringo Chen · #23 (**permalink**) September 8th, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by arne_bab
I AM being sued, your doubting sadly doesn't change it.

Instead of my IP, the protocol could also simply include the IP of my Proxy and a Transfer-ID.

Just a thought but maybe, if we didn't use illegal warzes we wouldn't get sued.
Even if you use a proxy I can get your IP address or at the VERY least know exactly what network your on and who your IPS is. From there it only takes a phone call to get the rest. If someone wants your IP they can get it and contrary to what I have read here in the forums it's not hard.

Ringo

Ringo Chen · #24 (**permalink**) September 8th, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Adrian
What I believe the proposed "secure" network arne_bab speaks of is to use "Ultrapeers" or "proxies" as a type of "bodyguard" for the network. Each computer connects to an Ultrapeer as a user, and their IP address is stored in a database on that computer that is not visible on the network. Then, when someone wishes to download a file they must go through the Ultrapeer to connect to that server (indirectly). In essence, the Ultrapeer then becomes a 'network host' between both computers.

This is most definately NOT a good idea, since it puts all the strain of the network on the Ultrapeers, bouncing raw data from computer to computer, ignoring the shortest internet route and slowing down the network in the process. In turn, this also makes it look like the Ultrapeer is actually the one originating the file. This means that not only network strain is put on these servers, but legal strain. It makes them responsible for the data they pretended to host. Then the Ultrapeers would be forced to release the IP information from their database to show the file's origin. So, this actually does NOTHING to protect you from getting caught distributing illegal material, except putting the network to blame for its members' mistakes (Napster, anyone?). All of what you wish to do here can already be done by connecting to your ISP via a proxy.

Encryption of files on a PUBLIC NETWORK is totally ludicrous! All encryption does is prevent people monitoring connections to read the file. But if those people can simply download the file from you and read it, they've just bypassed your encryption security! Encryption is only necessary for Private P2P communication, which Gnutella is not. When you put files on the Gnutella network you are sharing it with the world, not select "trusted" people.

At first this may seem a logical solution, since as an individual you will never share 100% of a file with anyone. However, if you think about it with more than 6 hz of brainpower, you'll realize that it would make downloads IMPOSSIBLE. In short, the only way you could make a download 100% complete is if the same file were located from 2 different sources! Therefore, nobody would ever be able to add anything to the network! Unless, of course, they happened to have access to 2 computers, which defeats the purpose of everything in the first place. If you are truely concerned about not having the full file downloaded, you should focus on having more sources available with that file. So, ironically, all the people who are way too paranoid about the lack of privacy on Gnutella are the ones causing this problem on Gnutella. Go figure. A network is only as good as its members; it can only give you what its members give out. In this case, it's strength in numbers.

One thing I would like to point out is that anywhere you go on the internet, using any internet protocol, has the capability of logging your IP address. Simply using the internet is a security risk. All networks are formed around the concept of trust. If you don't trust a website with your IP address, don't visit it. Same with Gnutella. I hate to say this, but, if you don't trust the people on Gnutella, don't use it. Whatever company gave you the data that you are sharing probably trusted you not to share that data. So to say that you do not trust the very people that you wish to share data that was entrusted upon you, is at the very least hypocritical. Not to mention the countless people of whom shared their own trusted data with you. To eliminate this trust by sharing anonymously would be catastrophic to the network.

And, if you are concerned about people hacking into your computer, or uploading viruses, there are already hundreds of client-side solutions for all of these. However, the more internet presence you have, the more you are at risk. I hate to use the cliche "The best internet security is not to use the internet at all," but it's true.

Ditto ...

Ringo Chen · #25 (**permalink**) September 8th, 2004

I think another way to insure the saftey of all parties is to offer files under a request format. Someone wants a file they can request it and the sender can look up the IP if there paranoid and see where the request is coming from. I think the more information that is posted in limewire the MORE protection we have. If you can hide your IP so can the law. If everyone joining Limewire HAD to have their vitals (to a certain extent) posted so that one could verify that information as being a valid address and user, there would be far less paranoia and far less chance of anyone getting sued for any reason. Also as a side benefit you wouldn't be as likely to download trash,malwares and viruses.

I posted several IP's, phone numbes and email addresses this morning here in the fourms of individuals that were maliciously sharing malwares (usually a marketing company) under file names or program names, that are popular software, ebooks and other inticing names that usually look like: P_H_O_T_O_S_H_O_P! and the like, that will completely hose your system if you use them. I sniffed their IP's (of course they had browse host turned off) and found all I needed to know. What they are doing is just as illegal as any thing else I've seen on any P2P network. They know it. But it's the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? Ergo,
If we had a "bad files" list like e-donkey, e-mule and others. We would not waste our time nor take the chance of getting caught up in problems like the ones being mentioned here.

After the post I was semi bashed by one of the fourm admins for posting "private" information. In retorespect the only thing I posted that was out of line would have been their phone numbers. The IP and abuse@ email addresses are PUBLIC knowledge and are there for a good reason....

As it turned out Morgwen suggested that I post this information on a "Private server" for those that are Interested in keeping the community free of those with bad intent. I thought that a great idea and am creating a "private" by invite only area for those of you who would be interested in seeing exactly whom your dealing with and what wares are bogus. I would invite anyone with any information on bad files, IP's of those whom are invading OUR pricacy to join my effots and post this information in OUR forum. I'm also looking for a few admins to help in this effort to keep the forums and site running smoothly.

If you would like to read the orginal post:
http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...threadid=28024

I can be contacted at ringo@mindwire.us

-Ringo-

Ringo Chen · #26 (**permalink**) September 8th, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by arne_bab
All people can already hide their IPs.
They simply use freenet ( http://freenet.sf.net )

But that program isn't intended for filesharing, but for real freedom of information (you also don't know who really published the articles there, and it is *almost* impossible to find it out, even for police and similar.

Correct, however like you said. It's not file sharing. God I love open source

Ringo

arne_bab · #27 (**permalink**) September 8th, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Ringo Chen
Correct, however like you said. It's not file sharing. God I love open source

Ringo

Uh, I said something else: I said: It isn't intended for file sharing. Still it is being used for file-sharing via frost (and not that ineffective).

Which means: Freenet is the only really anonymous file-sharing app (which suffers from all the downsides of anonymity: Slower downloads, much network overhead (some of it even intentional) and you have to give at least 250MB of your hard disk to freenet (better still: iGB or more), on which encrypted data is being stored, whoose content you may never know.).

Still it does work. It isn't very usable from the UI standpoint, but working.

About the post about anonymizing: I'll need some time for the answer. Many things happening in my life at the moment.

nav · #28 (**permalink**) October 3rd, 2004

yeah its kinda screwed up there that we're so vulnerable to attacks from hax0rs n the enforcement alike... especially if the user doesnt have a standalone firewall, the average survival time before you get infected is 20 mins...

guess the only thing we could do is not share an alarming number of files at a given time, like maybe 1 gig or sumtin... that shouldnt raise an alarm, and IMHO the ppl who got caught were the ones who were mega sharing clients...

of course the downside of not sharing much files is eminent, but there should be a balance between sharing and security, privacy... any ideas?

murasame · #29 (**permalink**) October 3rd, 2004

Well, if you wanna dld vids (for example) dlding the ones that just got out in the theaters isn't very smart as they are the ones that are most "guarded" by the enforcement army.
One more reason to either buy them or get them from the video club.

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