lw working ok
 

after dealing with the javaw problem, (which, by the way, i am curious why it is nessassary to load yet another program into my computer and not even know why) i am getting connected to limewire but not with the normal amount of hosts. before, i got an average of 2 thousand hosts, now only about 2 hundred. i see that other people are not even getting in at all, so i guess i am doing better than that. is the system still having bugs? does the release of 1.5 have something to do with the problems? my 1.5 seems to be working fine.except for the lack of hosts. i generally leave my computer on and connected to lime wire so as to help the system, is this more helpful now? i really prefer limewire over bearshare. with all the problems with napster, i fear that gnutella may be next in the sights of the record companies. i hope this problem is not the beginning of the end.

Hmm, do you know anything about what gnutella is??? Well, it doesn't sound as if you do. Gnutella does not have a central server, so it cannot be shut down. It makes everyones individual computer a server, and the only thing the record companies could do is possibly try to convince the gov't that this software itself should be illegal. Now I think we should all know that is not going to happen. They can't very well march into all of the probably millions of gnutella users houses and demand that they erase it. That would be ridiculous to even try. Anything that doesn't have a "gnutella" label is what you should be worried about. Napster is being shut down because they actually have something TO shut down. All of those other non-gnutella clients are going to be next. Gnutella cannot be stopped.

Actually...
 

Actually, it is possible for the Gnutella network to be targeted by the RIAA, or any other organization. Statistically, 3% of Gnutella users provide over 50% of all the materials found on the network. With a little programming knowledge, it is possible to see what users are doing on the network (illegal or not, it can be performed nonetheless). After monitoring the pings and pongs being sent between gnutella users, IP Addresses can be harvested that have been shown to be hosting large amounts of copyrighted materials. Although a computer's IP address changes every time a user dials up with an ordinary ISP, some user's IP address remains constant. These would include most T1, Cable, and DSL users. There is an option with some service providers that allows dynamic IP Addressing, which changes your IP address every once in a while to avoid unauthorized access. Once the IP address has been obtained, it can be traced to a service provider. If the organization and the service provider cooperate, the name, address, e-mail address, etc. of the use can be matched with the IP Address. Then they could easily issue cease and desist orders (I'm not sure if I said that right, so correct me if I messed up). If individuals don't comply, the RIAA can be sued.

So, if the RIAA wanted to track the gnutella network and try to weed out all of the "illegal users", they could theoretically wipe out the gnutella network. But looking at things realistically, you will see that there are tens of thousands of users. According to LimeWire.com, there are currently (at the time of this post) about 40,000 hosts on the network. That is, of course, only representing the number of hosts that are "viewable" within LimeWire.com's search horizon. There are most likely many users than this number shows, and no matter how hard the RIAA worked, they would have very little impact on the network. The network constantly changes, grows, evolves, and new users are joining faster than Intel is releasing Blue Man commercials (did you know they spent $300,000,000 on those stupid light-bulb sucking excuses to buy a pentium 4?). Anyways...

Some have already tried to make ISPs block known "offenders." Nearly all (if not all) have denied such demands, saying that it limits a user's freedom of speech or some other intelligent excuse. I feel sorry for any ISP caught in this situation. They feel much like a go-between, and they are expected to show the RIAA some results.

Later Everyone!

True true. The difference, though, is that say, with napster, there was and is an actual company that can be shut down. Not on gnutella. There would be no frivilous lawsuits here. Who on this network has millions of dollars? I seriously doubt anyone does. And what is the solution if they do find an IP address that shares a lot of copyrighted material? Ban them from the internet? File a criminal suit? Throw them in jail? And even then, that won't stop everyone. Where did you get that "statistic" from anyhow?

Statistic
 

On this page are several links to technical papers that have been published about the Gnutella nerwork. I referred to these to get my information. I guess I should have given this link in the previous paper. Enjoy!

http://www.limewire.com/index.jsp/tech_papers

I used this article extensively in my post.

http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue5_10/adar/

Questionable
 

In case anyone is really wondering, do i really think that Gnutella will be shut down by the RIAA? Good luck. You'll need more than you'll ever get.

Re:
 

--
Say the RIAA wants to sue someone (This assuming they took a shipload of computer experts and told them to stay up all week and find the address and phone number of one IP address.)(I know, but they still try to track people.) for 'illegal' activity. Let's say that they got the IP by hacking and spying, which is how they do it. How could they sue, if <b>they</b> got it illegally, and without permission, which is how they do it. I'm no lawyer, so what would happen?


Kirby
[IMG]http://**************.com/ms/kirbykore/images/kirbywave.gif[/IMG]

Excellent Point....
 

You've made an excellent point, Kirby. According to the US Constitution, a warrant is needed to search your property. If authorities go in without persmission and collect evidence, all that evidence will become null and void should a trial arise. Classically, this is applied to an example such as suspicion of growing marijuana (sp?) plants in your home. I really have no idea how this applies to the Internet and computers. Will anyone who really knows about this stuff comment, please?


P.S. Here are some more enlightening articles.

Looking for the next Napster
http://juno.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-6455436-0.html

Student's PC seized after Record Industry Complaint
http://juno.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2783386.html

I am at on a college campus right now, where we here also have a policy disallowing student from downloading copyrighted material. I don't agree or follow the rule obviously, but they really have no way of knowing, unless they are monitering my activity (they have to let you know if they are doing that, right?). Ack! Oh well. Anyhow, I was going to say that since this isn't my connection, it's technically not really my property, and so the school has any right to do whatever they want with my computer, although they would probably resort to just erasing my IP addy off the network.

College Firewall
 

If your college is providing your internet access, it would be possible for your college to put up a firewall to block all the major gnutella peer to peer communication ports. This would include 6346, 6347, 6348, and 6349. I know that there are others for other file sharing programs, but I can't recall off hand what they are. But not all the material on the Gnutella network is copyrighted, and this would block people from reaching "legal", unpirated material. It's kinda like the old saying (if it is a saying) goes:

You are given tools to work with. You can accomplish good things with them, or you can choose to to bad things with them. What you do is up to you.

Take for instance, a car. It is a tool that you can drive around for transportation, or you can use it to run some innocent pedestrian down. Just because people can do bad things with tools doesn't mean that the tools should be banned. The people that are using the tools unwisely should be disciplined. The debate taking place in the courts right now is this: Is sharing copyrighted music over the internet illegal/bad? Even if they deem this illegal, Napster should not be shut down, but there are exceptions to the saying.

This is an exaggerated example. Plutonium can be used to produce electrical energy. But it can also be used to make bombs, BIG bombs. Should we ban the tool? In this case, yes. Most of the time, the tool will be used for bad purposes. If the courts decide that file-sharing is used primarily for bad purposes, they can take it down. As we have already talked about, that will be an impossibility, but they will try nonetheless.

Re: College Firewall
 

--
You were talking about other ports...we need one that has other traffic on it so if it is blocked the other users will be unhappy, but not too much traffic, so it doesn't congest GNet. My suggestion is the port that Aim uses. Does anybody know what this is?
Also, say there's enough blockage to move the entire network to another port. How would we go about doing that?

Kirby
[IMG]http://**************.com/ms/kirbykore/images/kirbywave.gif[/IMG]

Alternate ports
 

I am no expert when it comes to altering the Gnutella network. But as far as I understand, changing the port number that listnens for other hosts can create a new extension of the network. For instance, if I chose to use port 6357 (this is an example- I don't know if this is a viable option), I can find you if you are using that port to listen to the network as well. Problems with this include:

a) no one else may be using that port, so you would not find anyone to connect to,
b) this port may already be used for something else. Like I said, I don't know much about what ports are used for what services, how many ports there are, etc. I basically know that using port 21 to host an ftp server works.
c) the autoconnect hosts give you the addresses to hosts who are using the standard port # (or numbers), so there would need to be a new router set up for this to be practical.

I do not know what Aim uses. In fact, I am not sure what you are referring to. America Online Instant Messenger, Aimster? Please clarify this or correct my ignorance.

The main thing that clogs the Gnutella network are pings and pongs sent between users when searching for files. When it comes time to actually download a file, LW makes an http (hyper text transfer protocol) connection directly to the host. So, the only thing clogging the network are the searches, pushes, queries, pings, and pongs, etc. If we were to try a new number (I mean more than just a few people), we might reduce the traffic. It's like adding more lanes to a freeway. The standard for Gnutella is 6346. But many people have already started using other port numbers.

So to answer your question, Kirby, I am not really sure. But I do know that there are other ports for Gnutella above 6346, and that you can use them.

More Ports
 

Does anyone know any resources that discuss ports? If so, please post a link here. Thanks!

A bit exxagerated I should say! You realize, of course, plutonium is manufactured from uranium, a natural resource. Hard to make a natural resource illegal dontcha know. And moreover, the uranium used for power cannot be produced into plutonium. It has to be uranium in it's purest form, in which case the stuff used in nuclear power plants is not.

Updated Example...
 

For those of you who must have a technically correct example (hint hint- You know who you are), let's try this:

Consider an undividual owning a cabel subscription plan that comes with first 20 or so channels. But this guy wants all the good stuff: HBO, Cinemax, Sci-Fi, etc. Problem is, he doesn't want to pay for them. So, he buys a cable descrambler. But as most people know, these are illegal in the U.S. The primary feature of the hardware is to perform an operation that is considered illegal, and has already been established as being illegal. Most people who buy a descrambler will use it to unscramble a scrambled signal. Because of this tendancy, it has been made illegal because it does more harm that it does good. Most people will not use it for noble purposes, and most likely, there aren't any. As a result, the use of cable descramblers in the U.S. has been banned.

Likewise, using a file sharing program is meant to share files. Most of the files being traded with them are copyrighted materials, or derivatives thereof. These are not ordinarily found on the internet because it is (or in some cases is going to be) considered illegal to freely distribute these. Thus creates a demand for a peer to peer file sharing scheme. Is Gnutella encouraging the transfer of copyrighted materials? Almost everyone would have to agree yes to that. We are waiting for the courts to make an official ruling on whether it is legal to trade music on the internet even though it is copyrighted.

Gnutella is a wonderful tool that can be used to share wealths of information and knowledge, but unfortunately, many people are infringing established copyright laws. Luckliy, Gnutella is still in its infancy and is not attracting all too much attention yet. But later on, there's a hefty chance that Gnutella will be deemed illegal or banned altogether. But, as they say, only time will tell.

Re: Alternate ports
 

--
Yes, I mean "Aim" as "Aol Instant Messenger" even though I hate it, it's a good port change option. I ran a netstat with Aim running, and the port is 5190. I double-checked it so it was its port, not the one I was running. About my other question, it is early, but how would we move the network to another port? We'd use all the forums, but what about people who don't look at the forums? Could the program developers put a script in their programs that changes the listening port 5190?

Kirby
[IMG]http://**************.com/ms/kirbykore/images/kirbywave.gif[/IMG]

Port question
 

Perhaps I am not understand exactly what it is you want to do with port 5190. I always thought that a port is used for one type of protocol, not several. If you wanted to switch Gnutella to another port, wouldn't it make sense to use one that is not being used by another service? If using an already claimed port #, there would be more traffic on it than the current network already has. What would be the advantage of using AIM's port?

Port Change
 

Anyone who wants to can choose to listen to ports other than 6346. In fact, many people are already using 6347, 6348, 6349, and 6355. By spreading ourselves out over a larger area, it makes it more difficult to track specific users, but in now way would using another port isolate users from one another. There are always bridges between the ports being used (i.e. people who are connected to both 6346 and 6347 ports).

Yes, we could tell everyone in the forum to switch to another port number is required, but as you have already stated, it is too early and there is no need to do this yet. Yes, developers could write a script that changes the listening port to 5190, or any other port for that matter. Right now, I am working on a Script for Win 98 that will change the port number for you. We'll see if I can get it to work right, and if I do, I'll post it for you. ALter, Kirby!

Script
 

I do have a solution for the script idea. I made an executable file for windows that modifies the LimeWire listening port number. But after reading LimeWire's License Agreement, I think it would be in everyone's best interests if I do not distribute it. Unless I get a green light from a LimeWire developer, which I am not currently seeking, I am not going to release it. This type of alteration could potentially fall under the category of backwards engineering, and since LimeWire is not an opensource project, I will respect their rights and will not release any modifying software.

On the other hand, it is relatively easy for users to change the listening port themselves. It's simple enough to go to the options tab and type in a few little digits. So, if we can all coordinate our efforts, we may be able to expand the Gnutella networks should the need arise. :-)

Re: Port question
 

--
The reason it would be good to switch to 5190 is that when (not an if) ports 6346,6347 are widely blocked, we can move there and if they block 5190, they will also block Aim, and the Aim users will be mad. 5190 is also a good choice because there's not too much alternate traffic. Some idiot might come in and say "Why not switch to port 80?? They can't block that!!" Because the rest of the internet is using that port and it would take hours to connect, let alone download something. For now, it makes sense to stay put on 634*. But
very soon these ports will start being blocked, and we'll need a plan.

Kirby
[IMG]http://**************.com/ms/kirbykore/images/kirbywave.gif[/IMG]

AIM
 

I see what you are saying. This would be feasible as long as we could reach enough people to do this. I noticed that you underlined very in your last post. How soon do you think it will happen? What influences your thinking in this way? Please let us all know. Also, what scheme do you think they could use to block the ports? Would the ISPs do it individually?

I can think of one thing that the RIAA could do. If they modified a gnutella client, they could load it on several hundred conputers hooked up to the internet. Right now, you're thinking "So What??" But, using this vantage point, they could broadcast random, automatically generated quieries, searches, pings, etc. If they had enough of these clients adding massive amounts of traffic to the network, the network would slow to a crawl. It could clog and and not be worth anything to users. The network would be completely jammed and no one could find anything in their searches.

If they did try to do something like this, their effect could be minimized by blocking the hosts that are doing this. We would have to organize an effort to discover all these "bad broadcasters", and we could tell everyone to block them. Or, we could release a script or executable (with LimeWire's permission of course) to block all the known offenders automatically. This is a rather depressing subject, but I know we should all be actively planning for the future. Any ideas, Kirby?

Re: AIM
 

--
I underlined very for a few reasons, like universities have already started blocking. Mainly because the RIAA is starting to mess around with Gnutella. One guy here had a nasty letter sent to him, so it couldn't be long before they try to get ISPs to block 634*. 5190 isn't too congested at all, I was just downloading on it.

Kirby

[IMG]http://**************.com/ms/kirbykore/images/kirbywave.gif[/IMG]

Universities started blocking a long time ago. Universities also, the majority of them, started refusing to block a long time ago. You are wondering into the area once again of the gov't having to make things illegal, except now your talking about open ports! LOL. I'm sorry, but it seems this conversation is getting more and more ridiculous. Most colleges have already made their decision as to whether or not they wanted to block access, and most have decided not.