Leeches
 

I don't know how Gnutella works, but in kazaa-lite, all the leeches drives me nuts. I would love to have the possibility of denying people that doesn't share to download from me. Or set a limit, unless you share more than 10 gigs, you're not allowed to download from me.

I'm new to XoloX. I like the possibility of multiple searches, but I miss right click, find more from user. And the feature I mention above. But I don't know how Gnutella works, maybe it's implemented already? Anyone care to explain?

Greetings from Olav

while there are ways to implement viewing another's shared files please keep in mind this is file sharing not file trading.

Exactly. And why should I waste my bandwidth on someone that isn't sharing then? It's file SHARING, but the leeches doesn't give a ****. So why share with them?

Greetings from Olav

some stats:

70% of gnutella users dont share.
The top 1% of people on gnutella account for 40% of the files.

I don't know where you got your stats from, but I assume they are pretty outdated.

According to my data, 66% of all users are sharing at least 100MB of data. 25% are sharing more than 1GB.

91% of people sharing 100mb+ is highly unlikely...

Who said that it was likely?
Did I skipped something? :confused:

well the 25% are already part of the 66%.

Well,
I guess I will go and practise some more Math :eek:

66% is sharing more than 100 MB. And only 25 % of those over 1GB. I don't know what others think, but that means there are 34% of total leeches, and 75% of more or less leeches in my eyes. That's not positive numbers. Should definitively be a possibillity for not sharing with those darn leeches.

Greetings from Olav

The average user is using gnutella solely for mp3s and you can't expect those people to share there whole hard drives.

Those numbers are well enough to work with.

Hello!

First of all it is not called Leeches it is called Freeloaders and they are people that do not share any files.Me personally share 14gigs and 5000 files and add about 20-30 files a week so I would pass according to you but you cannot expect people to share that wast amount of data over the network I think that 75MB or about 20mp3 songs are enough for me so that is the limit I have set in LimeWire that people must share in order for them to download from me.If you want Anti freeloading capability then switch to Gnutella and LimeWire wich is the only client that has this function.Want to talk about leeches talk about Kazaa they are leeching on your bandwith.Did you know that your computer's bandwith is used for the hidden network Altnet for Brilliant Digital's paying customers thats leeching!

As mentioned, most of my experience is with KaZaA. KaZaA-Lite that is, and it has no hidden network, no stealing of bandwidth. As for the sharing limit, maybe I was overdoing it a bit. But my point is that I hate free loaders. I don't wish to waste my bandwidth on them. XoloX seems nice, but if there are other clients with the feature I ask for included already, I think it's time for me to switch.

Greetings from Olav

Hello Olav!

Bealieve me you are participating in a hidden network called Altnet it lays on top of Kazaa but you never see's it unless you pay for Brilliant Networks service.You can read all about it on these sites.Articles:

Article 1

Article 2

Article 3

Read more about Brilliant Digital and their network Altnet:

http://www.brilliantdigital.com/

http://www.altnet.com/

But fortunatelly there is a way to get rid of the scumware go here and download the software you need to get rid of it:
B3D Killer

Thank you for the information Joakim. But as I said, I use KaZaA-Lite, not KaZaA. KaZaA-Lite is KaZaA without the hidden network, the motherf...ing Banzai Buddy and so on. And just to be sure, I ran add-aware and B3D killer after I installed KaZaA-Lite. But anyway, thanks for the info.

What I would like to know though, is: If I decide to convert to limewire or gnutlla, to get rid of the freeloaders, what one should I choose, and why? I'm currently running KaZaA-Lite and XoloX, and I'll keep running KaZaA-Lite. XoloX on the other hand, is very nice. But I don't get much downloaded, and then it helps very little. It doesn't deal with freeloaders either.

Greetings from Olav

Xolox is fine.
In LimeWire there is a feature where you can set up
how many files a user must share not to be a freeloader.
You can deny download requests by freeloaders if you set
"allow freeloaders" to rarely.

I don't want to argue the fact, that LimeWire is the best gnutella client ever, but Freeloader blocking probably doesn't quite work as you think it does...

Who has an active site with *current* stats that are even remotely accurate? ....until then all anyone is doing is throwing stats out none of us can confirm to be the present truth. I am also leaning toward the 66% sharing at least 100mb - but I don't know for sure so *shrug*

Anywho, as far as 'freeloading' goes it is always going to be a problem and if a user doesn't want to share that badly - they won't.
Some things that help the sharing ratio are to do prompt during install if you would like to share files and do an automatic search. And additionally every file you download should automatically become shared to the network. There are many other things, but its up the the user and client to make sharing painless and automatic.

Hello!

Yes it is true that it is hard to find accurate statistics.The article often reffered to on many places is now over 8 months old and does not represent the present situation at all.It is estimated that the Gnutella network grows about 7% each month so it is hard do an accurate estimation.I do not even think that the Gnutella developers themselves really knows any more exactly how large the network has become because with the more recent implimentations to the Gnutella architechture it is hard to get a horizon that is large enough to do that kind of estimates.What might be even harder to know about is exactly how many people that are sharers and how many are freeloaders.But you can make qualified guesses and I share about 14Gigs and over 5000 files and by looking at the number of IP's under the Monitor tab in LimeWire (which is the client that I use) that get the File Not Found message from me I have concluded that about 40% gets that message and fails to download from me wich means about 400 attempts out of a 1000 and since I have set the limit to 20 files which someone needs to share in order to be able to download from me I would estimate that atleast 60% of the Gnutella users do share 20 files or more and since most people usually shares music files and the average size of a mp3 file is about 3.5MB it means in average that these 60% share about 3.5X20=70MB of files.This is ofcourse just guesses but it seems pretty accurate to me when comparing to some other data on various news sites(I have forgotten the specific addresses sorry).

KayaMan, you are right. We can't know how big a percentage share and not. But since I have mostly used KaZaA-Lite, I know this. Pretty often I use the "Find more files" on users that download from me. And it's usually large files, not MP3. And in most of those cases, they don't share. So I'm speaking on behalf of "my own statistics". And what I see is what I believe :D

Anyway, I can't stand freeloaders. And since XoloX doesn't have any "protection" from this at all, Limewire is my next option I guess. Any of you used Direct Connect by the way? How is it? What network/type of sharing does it use?

Thanks for the input from everyone.

Greetings from Olav

Gnutella allows for creating very accurate statistics. I know LimeWire has Gigs of data on that topic (although not in a presentable form).

PONG messages, broadcast to the network contain number of files shared and the size of files shared.

QUERYHIT messages contain an indicator if the host has successfully completed an upload in this session.

It's actually very simple to use those messages to create those statistics you want.

Who the hell has 20 gigs worth of crap? I have 2 gigs tops and I have broadband, I just don't use that much.

10 or 20 gig minimums are ridicuolous, I wouldn't expect anyone to waste that much HD room so they could waste more.

-mike

why more than 20?
 

i also have broadband, and i share more than 30 gigs of multimedia. mp3's, mpegs, avi's, all fo this takes room, and i like having it because i am supporting the place where i got it all from, p2p. More power to p2p, and less freeloaders.

Freeloaders SUCK!!!!!!
 

Freeloaders will always be around. there is no way to get around them. Even if you were able to use a block sooner or later someone would find a way to bypass it. There is no true way of fighting them either. Most freeloaders are not going to even bother to use a forum like this except to insult people. Do you think they really care that they are freeloading, because they don't. All they think is, "Hey! I got me this file, ahuh, ahuh!" If they are too selfish to share their files they what makes anyone belive that they care what they are thought of.

As for the 20gigs thing, I am willing to bet there are several out there who have this much alone in a computer. It is not unlikely for this to be true, however there are just as many who do not have that much and still are sharing what they do have. Personally I have no ****ing clue how much I have but I have put all but my extremely personal stuff up for sharing(ie family pictures,programs with personal information) and I am going through my computer looking for anything I might have missed.
But to deny access to someone who has a limited amount of files available but to take from them is almost as bad as freeloading. You are in a way doing the exact same thing to them as the freeloaders are doing to you now.

Freeloaders
 

I think everyone dances to the beat of a different drummer. I share over 10+ gigs and frankly I don't want to know who is freeloading and who isn't. I'd like to think that Xolox has a good community of people and being paranoid about who is leaching and who isn't requires too much energy from me.

I lived in an international house in Japan for two years and we had one computer shared by all. Our landlord had hired an egotistical computer tech who kept track of what was on the computer if he didn't put it on there he'd delete it immediately and the landlord would fine us for abusing the computer. These were back in the days of Napster and the very beginnings of Bearshare and as much as I would have liked to share the files I downloaded, I didn't have a choice. Though I know not everyone is in that position I was, I can't be bothered to get worked up about it.

I'm sure there are some people who are simply scared that the RIAA or some law enforcement agency is going to go after them just for sharing something, I don't know, I will simply continue to share and support the p2p community because its such a great way to share and I'm happy to see people downloading from me and hopefully appreciating whatever file they download.


Wolf

im Sharing 989 MB !

Kohansujimichi,

Thats great! 900+ is a lot. Don't let it get you down :) If I had more drive space and knowledge of what people wanted I'd throw all my cds directly on my hard drive. If you're only sharing a single file you're involving yourself in the great community of p2p file sharing. Good on you, I'd buy you a beer if I knew where you were ;) Its important for all of us to have courage and take care of someone who shares even a single file so our community will grow in strength which I think is wonderful.

I've used a lot of p2p programs and I will tell you, and Team Xolox, that it is thanks to them that I've been influenced enough to involve myself here, I think its wonderful. Had Xolox never existed I can say honestly I'd be another Unregistered user or not a user at all :)

I have over 400 Diffferent Music Files Im sharing then the Rest are progs Document's and VIDEOS !!! some r Pics too !

also Im not Old Enough to Drink but don't Tell any one :))

Also Soon My Anime Studio Im prt of will have some Files on its Site but We just got the Domain- www.Studio-sweet-sentiments.com

The real problem with leeches
 

As I see it, the real problem is people see file-sharing networks as a repository they can tap in to get some files and then disconnect! (Kind of like visiting a web of ftp site.)

This behaviour counts for the most leeching imho.

The are several reasons for ppl to behave like this;
- bandwidth considerations (upload limits opposed by their provider)
- resource considerations (not using their PC, or being online 24/7)
- social considerations (unwilling to return the favor of sharing)

All these problems need their own specific solution, which I can't even begin to tackle.

This post is merely to create some awareness to the underlying problems. Any comments?

I agree, because that's how I see it and use it. I see or hear a song somewhere and I'll try to find it. I'm not a leech I share what I have when I'm online but definately all the fileheads that want to restrict D/L to who they feel is worthy of getting what they have ruin the p2p experience for me. This is file sharing and to those who have thousands of files in their collection let me ask at who's bandwidth expense did they manage to get all those files?

Maybe it's time they stopped being on a power trip because they have such a large collection and realize that it's time to give a little back!

I agree, p2p is based on the old cliche, "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine"

I can tell you now that I would never have discovered numerous artists that I now love had it not been for file sharing. As much as some artists like to think sharing is evil, I'm an honest consumer, I buy what I like. (better than having junk emails) File sharing is fun, but I also think that despite our arguments there will still be some who wont share which is why I don't want to concern myself with them. If there were an option that allowed me to block my files from people who don't share a single file I might select it but I also think people have their reasons. Having a free program like this one makes it free to everyone, including freeloaders for good or for bad. I certainly think its worth the sacrifice of having one or two freeloaders downloading from me and 10 honest sharers each day than having no sharing at all.

As my parents taught me, "Which is better, half a slurpee, or no slurpee at all?"

Yeah I'm sorry but I think the reason is that once they get to the top of the heap with a big collection the fileheads think they are special and now deserve some sort of preferential treatment.

And again I will point out how did they get there? Most likely leeching files just like the users they are complaining about. Everyone starts out with an empty D/L directory.

I acknowledge their wonderful collection but I reject the notion it gives them the right to begin to decide who gets access to how much. I do feel all p2p programs should allow the user to set how many connections for D/L but NOT be able to block any specific user per se.

"Who the hell has 20 gigs worth of crap"

I share 100GB, upload aprox 90GB/month

i agree with mr gone.
Then what u have is exclusive groups that only share/trade with each other. NO ONE should be able to cancel anothers d load except by logging off themselves. with blubster u can hardly get anythin cause people just cancel your download and u can cancel their's.u get 75 % of a file , then it get;s cancelled , or more often than not, as soon as it starts it gets cancelled by. it;s seems to be getting very snobby out there. let's all just share and get what we can ie audio galaxy for example was good that way. no worries bout someone excluding you or cancelling your dload.
but we all do need to SHARE for it to work a6 it's best.

***********************************************
I don't know, I will simply continue to share and support the p2p community because its such a great way to share and I'm happy to see people downloading from me and hopefully appreciating whatever file they download.
************************************************

I agree with Wolf. If someone wants something I'm sharing, I'm all aglow that I have served the p2p community. 10 GB is an awful lot for a limit. My old PC (which I just got rid of last year) only had 3GB's of hd space.

I personally don't understand why people don't at least share what they've already downloaded but I expect most of it has to do with connection speeds. I think it's even worse when someone is sharing a file and they are running a 14.4 dialup (2 hours to download one mp3? What kind of shiznit is that?)

I personally share around 2GB is anyone wants to buy me a drink.
;)

Viva la revolucion!

Personally I wish my connection was a little bit faster on the upstream.. I've hit download speeds of 10mbps but my upstream has never gone above 300kbps to my knowledge..

90gb/mo is about my max upload [34kb/s ish 24/7]

I have about 400megs myself
 

So what if people don't have 1 gigs worth of files. I, including many other people, are on a tight budget and sometimes people cannot upgrade as quickly as they would like to bigger harddrives. I'm still working on the same 12 gig compaq as of three years ago. I use to have an iomega burner until it pooped out, trying to save up for another writer. So basically I wouldn't be allowed to share my files, vice versa, because I don't reach a quota?, spare me please.

I have been on many sharing programs for some years now and have kept my system opened for days, numerous accounts, when 8 people would be uploading with 14.4K modems at a transfer rate at 0.67K a sec to get the songs they needed. I myself never mooched, I always share.

CONCLUSION:
Don't judge by how many files someone has, judge by their courtesy in dedicating their time for letting you have files in the first place, not everyone is a freeloader.

RJ

Howdy, quick question on the subject of leechery.

If I download a file but it's not what I expected or I've listened to/watched it and am done with it, how long should one keep it shared before deleting to be polite and not be considered a leech ?

Obviously one needs to be sure it's there long enough for at least one other person to grab a complete copy (otherwise the availability of the file would shrink to zero over time), and ideally (in the land of infinite disk-space, that is) it would be kept shared indefinately until every gnut had a copy of everything gnutworthy.

However, human nature as it is, some people will cheat a bit on the deal. If only one in three users 'plays by the rules' it's necessary for them to keep downloads shared until at least three other users have a complete copy (one of which on average will be shared, and so the gnut-space doesn't shrink and the universe is happy).

So, to my initial question, how long should a good gnut keep a file available for upload once downloaded ?

If a file is not waht you expected, then renae it to match it's contents. That would do us all a favor. If you really do not want the file, delete it. Please do not stop sharing a file just because it has been there for a while. Downloading files, and then moving them elseware (so they are not shared) is the primary method of leeching.

Thanks for the feedback.

I quite agree one should try and not propogate badly named files and of course there's no benefit in artificially limiting what you share - the more the merrier.

My problem though is this; I've only got a limited amount of disk space and it's full. Before I can download something new I want, I need to delete something currently shared. Now, in my mind it wouldn't be fair to download as quickly as my connection allows (keeping my shared filespace full) when downloads *from* my machine are taking place at a lesser rate. To do so would be 'leeching' as I understand the term - getting more from the system that I am in turn contributing to it.

To view the question from another angle, how many bytes should a consciencious gnut budget to transmit for each one collected? If everybody acted honorably, one for one would suffice, but naturally that just ain't going to be the case. If, however we know that 50% of users (by bandwidth) are 'bit sinks' (leeching 100% of the time) a good user should budget at least 2 to 1 to keep the system stable.

It's just my own humble opinion of course, but this ratio really is the one that best defines leechery - having more disk space to share simply means you'll have folks using more of your outgoing bandwidth, allowing you in turn to use more of your incoming bandwidth in good conscience.

So, any suggestions for that magic ratio ?

I'm not so sure there is a magic ratio. Just do what you can to help. For people like you who have disk space issues, just share what you have. If you want to remove something that is ok. Just share everything you do have.

To the whiner that started this thread
 

File sharing is optional with XoloX. Deal with it. That means no one has to share the files(even if that would kill the community).
If you dont like it, go use edonkey2000 or something else that requires sharing. Personally, I share all my files that are in my downloads directory. You will never download my large files because they are removed from that directory immediatly. This is for the good of both you and me. I usually only stay on long enough to download a few songs or a video, and at my capped 15k/s upload that simply isnt enough time to download them anyway. So, I'm just trying to save you the frustration of dealing with 25% of a file that no one else has. Like I said, file sharing is totally optional, if you would rather trade go use edonkey2000 or IRC(in fact theres a newish server thats just all about warez).
Note. I am sharing files, just nothing over 10mb.

That is all.
let the flames begin, heh

PS. I just started using this program about an hour ago and it has crash 3 times, and made winxp come up with the blue screen of death. Makes kazaa hella better...

Leech, Freeloader
 

I began as what you would call a leech, freeloader, suckwad, etc.
Now I share 6.81 gigs of movies and 493 megs of songs. I don't know if I'm the norm or what but if you start blocking people with nothing to share, then they won't be able to get anything TO share. I guess I could find programs that allow me to see what they got to share and perhaps a way to block but I don't care to do so.
I feel fortunate to have access to a program like zolox and if I can help get files duplicated out there by sharing with all, well, that's what we all do here with zolox and if some person doesn't want to SHARE..well...I hope their machine bubbles with cyberfoam.
BUT until then I share with anyone that downloads for they may be as I

Man, I can not belive this post is even around but, it is and always will be a major issue. The truth is freloading is going to happen weather you like it or not ant there is no way to prevent it except not fileshare yourself. Many people do have to start out with nothing to share but most who get involved do return to others what they recived freely from someone. However there is a small number which does not fileshare nor will they ever realy know how others feel about it because they will not bother to read this forum. So ranting about it is all we can do.:mad:

10 Gig... dont you think thats a little extreme? not everyone here stores dvd's on their hard drives.

*hides his 200GB (ish)*

I prefer my HD's over scratchable media for some reason ;)

Sadly, however, not everybody has a high bandwidth connection or the time to make file collecting a life hobby, therefore, they don't share too many files...