All developers, code up! XoloX is back
 

The trick XoloX pulls is sending queries over and over to try to get more "hits".
People think thats great, but it will take down the network if enough clients do it.
It takes a average of about 120 seconds for all results to come back once you send a search request.
Sending it again down the same path wastes bandwidth.
The path changes a bit over time, and repeating a search after 300 seconds may be OK.
If you connect to a new node, you may want to send the search down that path, so holding a search would be a nice thing to do.
Make sure your code stops search queries that repeat less than 300 seconds apart.

Before you complain about the new version you should test it first!!!

The other is FIVE months old!!!

Morgwen

This should be added to any client no matter what to prevent that type of abuse of the network. So please check your code.

yup

Well, that's one solution. The other is to discard all Xolox queries automatically.

please dont even start down that road again. I hope xolox is responsible in their implementation of researches. The best way to research the network now is to support HUGE and do 1 search per hour by hash of all of they files you are looking for.

Very little burden on the network with the best results as HUGE is more widely adopted.

Thx Bearsharefan...
and I hope they have more innovative ideas as and querying once an hour for one hash. If GDF wants to block his own traffic with XML, slowness and static traffic routing, fine. Other developers should go new ways with overaverage concepts and more usability, Xolox team showed once they are the right persons for the job, with visions and excellent technical understanding! Xolox was not an unhealthy client (that's a Bearshare rumour to divert from own unhealthy technology). We need no Bearshare hipocrisy. If Xolox continues it's work like they did before, then they are doing us a great favour again!

PS: I should not send this post, because it's like a neverending dejavu: Bearsharefans with technical unatractive and unhealthy client want to tell others how to do things. Please ignore my post, it's only boring and repeating reality.

No, what you should do is get enough guts to log in. I wish they would inactivate the guest feature then the quality of posts here might go up.

Did you even read my post? Have you read any of my other posts? Xolox was a great client that finally pushed many other developers to included badly needed features. I never used Xolox much because I hated the interface.

Hey, I just use the best client, whatever that happens to be. And the best client is the one that works best for me. Im sorry you dont think I should be allowed to have my opinion.

Re: Ignorance abounds
 

Instead we should hide behind a free hotmail e-mail account and continue on fooling people into thinking we are not anonymous.
Anyone who thinks just because someone is a "member" and logs in that they are who they say they are is a fool.
I rather like not having to log in, saves me time.
There is no difference in "anonymity". If I logged in I would still be "irritating" because I don't have your point of view, but yet there would be others who find your point of view irritating.
One can simply type a name when posting. And no, I don't accept cookies openly, too many sites misuse the privledge so I turn it off.

Besides, it's fun watching Unregistered argue with another Unregistered, or is it with himself?

As a mod, you should be more open minded. We don't need a wild person deleting posts because it's "irritating". I know you haven't yet, but absolute power corrupts...

WAY off topic but...
 

I can't DISAGREE more. The noise level is so high here. Forcing people to log in would make it more of a pain for ppl that only want to cause trouble. Trolls could be banned by email. Yes, they could get a new email and account here but its a pain.

Re: WAY off topic but...
 

And so far how many people have been banned that way? How many do you plan to ban? Would you like to be banned because you had a strong point of view against/for some politically hot topic? Banning someone just creates enemies and more trolling. It takes 1 minute to create a yahoo mail account, and then you never have to read it and forget the password after a day so trolls can still be trolls and you made it harder to contribute here.
I find it easy to answer someone's question by just posting, not having to turn on cookies, log in and all.
When you turn off cookies on some browsers your cookie file is deleted, so if I turn it on/off for this board I would have to log in each time.
Wonder why you get popup ads/windows? Keep that JavaScript turned on too. Oh I forgot, in Explorer by Bill Gates you have no clue what that is so he can SPAM you, how nice.
The mods here seem to be keeping things in check through the threat of message editing. I see it working, don't you?
Control is bad, you should learn from governments that have tried it.

Re: Re: Ignorance abounds
 

As annoying as it is to try figuring out which "Unregistered" you're dealing with, I really have to agree with this :)

Re: Re: Ignorance abounds
 

Hmm...

He is only a mod on bearshare.net not here, they have other rules there!

The absolut power have normally ONE man the admi, he makes the rules and the mods have to follow. Some admis are open minded (see CycloCide) and some think deleting and moving annoying posts its an OPEN discussion (see Vinnie)...

Yes mods have some powers but the admis seek for people they can trust to. I am also biased sometimes but I would never delete or edit a thread because MY opinion is one side, my job as a mod the other...

Morgwen

Re: Re: Re: Ignorance abounds
 

KathW is a mod at bearshare.net? And she's a he?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignorance abounds
 

Argh...

I thought unregistered ment gnutellafan! :cool:

Morgwen

People can post anonymously if they want to
 

I prefer to post anonymously myself, because it actually forces you to make your posts make sense - or they will be disregarded.

'Reps' only encourage you to rely on your rep.

I ended up getting a nick because a) some nazis consider it necessary or they don't listen, b) main one, it makes it easier for me to find my old posts to refer to them.

Nos
PS here is <A HREF="http://www.limewire.org/">KathW</A> for the imte being. I think they must surely be due to promote some other volunteer worker on limewires site shortly.

Re: WAY off topic but...
 

I think that is the reason why Vinnie demanded that ONLY registered people are allowed to post in the bearshare forums...

Funny is that only people who don´t like Vinnie or bearshare make trouble... I WONDER WHY??? :rolleyes:

Morgwen

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignorance abounds
 

No, I prefer to log in and be heard. I have no problem with xolox. Was I in favor of blocking it? Yes. The client was no longer in development and any problems with it were not going to be fixed. Therefor if it was harming the network I thought it should be blocked. I am happy to see that the Xolox team will be back with a new client. I look forward to seeing what new inovations they introduce. In fact I have been talking with them making suggestions.


Yes, it is funny that "only only people who don´t like Vinnie or bearshare make trouble". Vinnie has definitly rubbed some people the wrong way to put it politely, but he has made an excellent client and helped keep the gnet alive. Often I feel that there is no point in coming to these boards as the troll population here is so large. Very little gets accomplished besides people complaining about this and that.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignorance abounds
 

Gnutellafan,

tell me what you are doing besides COMPLAINING???

Yes all people here are trolls because they don´t agree with your bearshare propaganda! :rolleyes:

Some of this so called trolls tried to say there opinion on bearshare.net but on bearshare.net there is CENSORSHIP, our KING Vinnie don´t want disagreement in his kingdom!

It doesn´t matter if Vinnie make a good client or not until he is not able to discuss critic without flames, look at Limewire these guys are able to read critic, reply politly and discuss it...

Morgwen

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignorance abounds
 

Morgwen,
I dont know what posts you follow over at bearshare.net but Vinnie has always been very open to my ideas and critics as long as they are presented in a constructive manner. I would not expect anyone to respond to, "i hate x." Tell them why x is bad and what you would suggest to change it. Ideas for improving the network. The same topics are always repeated here:

- "no comercial clients" (these same people probably would have complained about netscape and IE as commercial clients for the internet).

-"no spyware/adware". Hey, you have choices as to what client you use

- "Vinnie rules the GDF". I agree that watching the GDF is a slow and frustrating experience. But you cannot blame this on Vinnie. Different ppl have their priorities and push them. It is an open network and anyone COULD implement anything they want. I could point you to countless threads on bye packets, date stamps, and all kinds of other stuff. The fact is that Vinnie, nor LW, rule the GDF and that is exactly why things take so long. They listen to all of the developers and work on an agreement! That is the nature of an open protocol. A closed protocol network could move much faster.

-"BS blocks client X". IF you agree with this or not it doesnt really matter. BS will still allow ALL clients to upload and download from it. It will return searches to all clients. It just doesnt connect to them. So what. The network is huge. You only connect to 1-20 clients. So none of them are BS, SO WHAT.

-"BS clusters". So what. It doesnt effect the rest of the network and there is still plenty of interconnection with the rest of the network. LW does the same thing. WHY? Because they offer features that the rest of the network doesnt. If they arent near other clients with the same features than the features are worthless. It would be stupid not to cluster.


So, what are some issues that I have strongly disagreed with Vinnie on?

-"Limiting search results": Before everyone flames Vinnie, I should point out that John Marshall (Gnucleus) just proposed the same thing at the GDF (and yes he participates in the GDF). The limiting of search results is a major fault of the FT network. We need to make Gnutella better than FT, not the same.

-"Partial file sharing": Vinnie does not believe in the virtue of this feature. I have pushed it hard at the BS forums. Vinnie has always replied with reason and logic (though I still disagree). He has NEVER deleted, edited, censored any of my posts.

The bearshare forums are an open place for constructive input.

The post above is mine
 

of course the post above is mine. Hate for anyone to think that I wouldnt log in.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignorance abounds
 

And of course it's "propaganda" if you don't agree with it.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignorance abounds
 

Perhaps not your posts...

Do you really think Vinnie will tell you when he delete a post?

What is with the hidden spyware forum? I think this forum is deleted now?

The last sentece is bearshare propanganda!!! All voices have to be heard, I mean ALL... Gnutella is one community so all voices count, not only this who suggest something constructive!

I remember that I posted something similar to your posts, Vinnie called it offensive and started a Kick Morgwen poll! His arguement was that I flamed him - I ask him if he is kidding us? Yes, and I know at least 100 other flames from Kutulus and some others guys in his holy bearshare labs... they were never edited or deleted... yes if you agree you are allowed to flame if not...

Morgwen

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignorance abounds
 

I disagree. First it is Vinnies board, so he is free to do with it as he sees fit. Even if that is not the case, as in gnutellaforums, NON-constructive input gets in the way of anything productive. If you cant see that then you are blind. I know that many people here would like to believe they are the rebels fighting the evil empire that is BS, LW, and the_gdf, but fact of the matter is very little has come out of here. Most of the active developers of clients, including Gnucleus, Cultiv8or, Swapper, ect all participate with an equal voice at the gdf. Vinnie may hell louder but it still doesnt count anymore when they put matters to a vote (and they do vote and each client gets ONE ( as in 1, the number between 0 and 2) and ONLY ONE vote. Yes, Bearshare gets only one vote. LW gets only one vote. Gnucleus gets only one vote. If xolox or phex wanted to participate they would get one vote each as well. They might have to put up with Vinnie yelling at them but that is all he can do. And as you said its an open network and Vinnie is free to do so. Unfortunatly it has burnt many bridges and people look negatively on a great client.

As for your deleted thread I have no idea what the contents were. You dont have to like Vinnie personaly but all I am tring to do is be a voice of reason here, presenting the other side of the argument, for all of those that come here and read these msgs.

YOU DISAGREE???

Lets see what Vinnie said!!!

House Rules

Objective

BearShare.Net is a place for BearShare users, the Gnutella community, and all individuals interested in file sharing. It is also a place to make friends and hang out. Please remember this is a forum for people from all over the world and from all walks of life.


Hmm...

sounds like ALL people (it doesn´t matter which client) can post their opinions! He don´t say something about IT MUST BE constructive!

I don´t know what is your problem with gnutellaforums? And I really want to know why you post here if you don´t like this side? I quitted posting on bearshare.net because I am tired of discussion with people who want to hear only one side - Vinnies side!!!

I ask me why you come here and post if you think its wasted time? Or do you want to promote bearshare? Yes as a new bearshare mod you have to make PR!

Morgwen

LOL
 

what a hipocrisy! bearsharefan (calling itself gnutellafan) is a Bearshare moderator. Pfft, his blabla about neutrality and testing all clients and bearshare is best, I can't hear it anymore.
I would rate him troll, BUT he knows about Gnutella details and is most time friendly (not like Sephiroth) and he does not tell lies (like Mrgone69). kissing vinnies butt isn't enough, but we know about your "neutral" postings now.

And here you only want to hear the anti-bearshare side. Where is improvement in that?

Stop your troll flooding
 

this is a developer forum and the subject is 'all developers ' not 'all trolls wake up'. you have no idea about programming or gnutella protocol, would you please stop.

No I don´t want to hear only the anti-bearshare side - but i want some arguements from people who know what about they are talking, coders etc. not some people who think repeating what Vinnie told them is the best!!!

Morgwen

Re: LOL
 

I have made no secret of the fact that BS is my favorit client. I used LW first but found BS to work better for me. I continue to try other clients but always go back to BS becasue it has the features that work best for ME. I have no problems with people that use other clients. I really could care less if everyone uses bearshare or not. Everyone has their own reasons for why they like one client over the other. In case you never venture around you will also find me posting at the_gdf, gnucleus.net, in the LW forums and where ever else I see fit. I am indeed a fan of gnutella and have been working hard to help contribute what I can to its improvement. It does not take the ability to write code to UNDERSTAND gnutella and the networking. I am not a programer but as far as I know no one else in this thread has a client or has contributed significant code to a client, so if you ask me to stop contributing my IDEAS (and I wont) I would ask you to do the same.

Re: Re: LOL
 

Do you know the people in this thread here? I know some of them... I know what they are doing!!!

Do you really think you help Gnutella by SUPPURTING ONE client? No you can only support Gnutella if you try to talk with the developers! I know you posted in the GDF... but do you really think anybody cares what you wrote there? If you want that the developers hear talk with them in private!!!

Yes we have all different ways how we help Gnutella!!! But you started that WE only are claiming and DO NOTHING (in an other thread!)... I know many of this people here spent many time for Gnutella - I mean Gnutella we try to improve the network and not just ONE client... everybody has his favourite client BUT WE HELP THEM ALL!!! Yes I also helped bearshare until Vinnie started to attack me... today I don´t want to support any of the commercial clients, or I want that they pay me for it! I decide WHAT I DO with my private time!!!

Nobody said that you shouldn´t contribute your ideas... but STOP promoting bearshare!!! This is the GENERAL GNUTELLA DISCUSSION forum not the bearshare forums, so if you think you have to promote bearsahre go to the bearshare forums... if you want to discuss about the NETWORK than STAY on topic please!!!

We discuss here about improving the network and not adding some features to a client...

Morgwen

yes yes yes
 

bearshare moderator has spoken, for the sake of Gnutella, bearshare is so cool, not 100% perfect, but great, rhabarber rhabarber. offtopic, you're not a troll, you're a nice guy maybe, together with Becker nicest and most fair bearshare mods. Your posts are still vinniebearshary colored and you're dancing with the devil. that's it. next.

Re: Search
 

I know how to unlock it! :p

Morgwen

Qtella has a windows version... but it is only an alpha... you should ask Etzi when he is going to release it!

Gnucleus is Ok, sure a try worth! :)

But I wait now for Xolox or stay with eDonkey!

Morgwen

get over it
 

Morgwen, you have NO idea what conversations I have in PRIVATE with developers do you. I talk with many of them as I see the need to improve the entire network, not simply attack one client. If only you could see what you are actaully saying. If I say anything positive about BS its just pr and all I care about is BS. Of course you can turn around and talk about how xolox is the best thing since sliced bread but you of course remain completely impartail (except of course for your extreme hatred of BS).

Re: Re: Re: LOL
 

Then please stop using the forums to simply attack BS. I do not promote bearshare. have only offered the other side of the argument when all of the ant-BS setiment begins to fly.

Re: Re: Re: Re: LOL
 

Its a free forum here the user can post what they want! And there is a reason why some of them attack bearshare, clustering, spyware, Vinnie etc.! And why the users cannot say their opinion about bearsahre, is only Vinnie allowed to trash clients like Xolox???

About your discussions with client developers, so you are a big guy are you? Do you really think the developers talk only with you? You said the most people complain here - hey do you really think you are the only one who tries to change something?

Yes you love bearsahare others not, yes I am biased against bearshare but others are not - funny that they post almost the same!!! So lets quit our off topic disussion here or start an other thread in the bearshare forums!

Morgwen

gnutellafan> First it is Vinnies board, so he is free to do with it as he sees fit.

That sums it up pretty good.
This isn't Vinnie's forum, it isn't under his control, no one client is represented here so it's the only FREE and OPEN place you can post about gnutella.
No reason to go anywhere else!

BTW: I love how these threads all get moved to "general guntella".

gnutellafan> as far as I know no one else in this thread has a client or has contributed significant code to a client, so if you ask me to stop contributing my IDEAS (and I wont) I would ask you to do the same.

I did. And I did stop already. So stop contributing to BearShare or LimeWire in any way until they get off Gnutella. And block, block, block them to hell. And if you think it took a Jr. programmer to make the blocking code, go look at all the GUI code I had to do. I think the other programmers would love to do this too, but it's a bit too politically "hot" for them to do it, so I have to do it for them.

You are all losing out on cool features because some developers won't write one more line of code to improve gnutella till the greed leaves. I hope more developers follow. I won't give Vinnie any more support or $$$.
Who wants to contribute a lot of time and effort when someone else profits financially? Go to hell Vinnie, I am not your free little worker bee and gnutella is not your kingdom or profit center.
You have to understand that a lot of the improvements to open source clients are provided by "outside" people who privately e-mail code to the "main" developers. Many don't want credit given, but like to contribute.
Vinnie & co. are going to screw that up for all of you.
However, I will use all my skills in ways that help allow people to remove them and the greed from gnutella. They won't leave unless they are forced to leave, this is the problem with greed on gnutella and it will get worse if we don't stop it now. You can see how much it takes to just get them to pay any attention to ths issue. They don't care what they do to gnutella as long as the $$ flow in. Greed sucks.

gnutellafan> "no spyware/adware". Hey, you have choices as to what client you use

Where have you been? When you choose to use BearShare you force me to contribute to Vinnies new car purchases because you are not just using other BearShare clients to pass your packets and supply you with files. His ads are now supported by my CPU cycles and network resources.
I didn't choose to contribute to BearShare!
You also pass spy packets through my machine, and who knows what else. I don't support spyware.
I now have a way to block the spyware and greed and it's at http://opensourcep2p.sourceforge.net/

gnutellafan> "Partial file sharing": Vinnie does not believe in the virtue of this feature. I have pushed it hard at the BS forums.

Way ahead of you, there are a lot of things that users would benefit from but Vinnie and LimeWire won't add them because it might somehow affect their advertisers. Think hard about how your ideas will affect their ads and you will figure it out. Greed is not always logical, is mostly a twisted way of thinking, and almost always ends up in some sort of control over YOU, the user (or do they think you are the "loser"?) or your resources.

So I strongly suggest for the sake of gnutella, which you support, that you stop using a greedy client and switch today. Gnucleus has all the features of BearShare and more, with no spam or spyware, and my version will allow you to clean up gnutella.

Just by using a free client you're fighting back!

hacker's note:
 

BearShare is awful, and I think that Vinnie guy should either play by the Gnutella rules or design his own network.

Found at http://www.zeropaid.com/news/article.../04212002a.php

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: LOL
 

Then why do you have such a problem with someone presenting an argument against the anti-bearshare rhetoric?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: LOL
 

I have no problem if someone who uses bearshare want to discuss with us and defend his position BUT...

its unnecessary to say "bearshare is a great client" or "Vinnie is a great coder", this is promoting and not disucssing about the network!!! Ah yes and whiners like Sephiroth should grow up...

He can post this in the bearshare forums!!!

I said this is a free forum, but I ment its a free side you have to find the right forum for your words!

Morgwen

P.S.:

Mostly the people here speak about commercial clients until one bearshare lover (Sephiroth, Gnutellafan or you) come and say bearshare is so cool etc. when this discussion turn into a bearshare thread... we have three commercial clients Bearshare, Limewire and Morpheus!

haha
 

arguments? you're funny, Mrgone. no, Bearshare/Limewire trolls (always the same 3-4 hatefull guys like you) come and flood with offtopic things and unprooven claims. this is a Xolox thread, why can't Bearwire fans start their own threads? use arguments, be friendly, help others, don't flood, don't imitate Vinnie!

here popcorn for you trolls:

* * ***** ****** *** ****

Odd considering it was "Unregistered" who brought up BearShare in the first place.

Mrgone!!!

I was not ONLY referring to this thread here, we had the same problem in other threads too...

And of course he can refer to bearshare, bearshare is a commercial client and I don´t want to discuss in every thread how great bearshare is!

Gnutella is not only bearshare - and we discuss here about Gnutella... in THIS thread here about XOLOX - repeat XOLOX!!!

Morgwen

But of course it's only a problem when Sephiroth, Gnutellafan, or myself bring it up.

And you don't seem to mind discussing how awful bearshare is in every thread.

OF COURSE IT IS A PROBLEM WHEN YOU TELL US IN EVERY THREAD WHICH FEATURES BEARSHARE HAS AND HOW GREAT IT IS!!!

We have have a bearshare forum here for promotion post it there - do you have something to say to Xolox (topic!!!) or to the network (forum!!!)?

Morgwen

I think its the best to close this thread here, if somebody want to start a new thread do it in the right forum - for the people who want to reply please stay on topic (including me!!!).

Morgwen