RIAA going postal, affecting LW?
 

So,

I just heard RIAA made a new law or something that made the manufactures responsible for the actions of the ones that uses their program and it had lead to popular p2p-sites have closed down. Is LimeWire going to be affected by this?

Are you referring to the Grockster case or are you referring to something rather newer? :confused:

yeah, old news

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09...tworks_darken/

Official Winmx-site is still down...

Dont believe everything you hear. As long as Limewire sticks to using the Gnutella network, they can't be sued or else, they would already have been.

LW can be sued. They will try to avoid that by not allowing shaing of unlicensed files (99,99% of files, even 90% of legal files don't have a lisence). That means that the next version of LW will kill LW itself because nothing will be available (you can look into the new code at limewire.org). Really sad. Whenever LW realeases a new update, DON'T UPGRADE! Or switch to another P2P client.

There will be LW forks... But LW is dead. Dead.

BS is dead and now LW, Gnutella will suffer a lot in the next year :(

.....

Serious? I thought as longas an app used gnutella they could only sue the users?


Nooooo. not yet. :confused:

Wow! So what constitutes a licensed file? 99% of what I downld are concert files that are unavailable on commercial cd's. I already have (previously bought) all of the main bands albums I'm after, including dvd's. So how are concert songs recorded unofficially considered in regards to licensing? That's a bit of a grey area for me at the moment. Since the music companies don't possess those particular recordings, what is their status?

thats just a warning. the socall new "feature" is going to DRM limewire. take a closer look at the code. i wasnt going to post in this thread, but eh. anyways, its just a backup plan for LW. (if im even allowed to give details?) but we also have a backup plan if LW does this ;).. be sure to lookout for a new up-coming LW clone.. (did i reveal too many details :p)

oh, one other thing.. RAZA guys are gonna love this: LW took one of your smart devs that actually have a clue how anything works. AHAHAHAH! zab said to start the trollympics, so i guess i started it. lmao

Ok ultracross call me an illiterate old fart but what does DRM stand for.

DRM read from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

but LW will live, just under different names. a new project is already underway. i will reveal details once we get the website up.

Thanks ultracross I should have known that I have Wikipedia book marked in my favorites.

How long before LW goes down for the count then? :confused:

Gnutella and the opensource LW code will survive. There are many issues to be resolved yet, and as long as you don't use or connect to untrusted ultrapeers you'll be as free to share tomorrow as you are today.

LW has no rights over my shares (nor any of the content shared through gnutella), nor does the RIAA have jurisdiction in all countries yet.

The EFF warned that the SCOTUS decision on Grokster would chill development, and now it looks like the owner of the commercial side of LimeWire has been chilled by the RIAA threats. Mark Gorton, the owner of LimeWire LLC, has persistently proven his support of open standards.

He has now proven the wisdom of making the code open sourceSo it's simple: only use installers that remain uncorrupted and benefit all people and future generations. Development will continue.

I'll be reverting to the 4.9.29 Pro, and will check with the opensource developers about which installers meet the goals of LimeWire's above statement.

Happy sharing all: development will continue, and the 1 million lines of code that LW.com has developed and released already provide a fine virtuous public network for the current 2 million users around the world.

Stief, yeah dev will continue... I'm beginning to think that's worse that if LW shuts its doors... As FOSS, LW will be worked on anyways, while now the LW infected with the CC branch will destroy Gnutella as users will continue to dl it until Gnutella is to ill to be usable in any way.

Here is my foreseeable scenario:
LW implements the CC branch with no sharing of unlisenced stuff. LW 4.9.31 is released in the wild and LW is signaled through the update mechanism. One week later, already 25% of the nodes do not share anything over Gnutella. People begin to notice file availability decreases. Not so long after, files become so scarce that remaining sub 4.9.31 nodes are filled with requests and do not send results anymore to searches. UPs are sending searches to the highest TTL nearly everytime, making dynamic querying inefficient because of overloaded UPs with search traffic. This means the search horizon will go down many times too.

After 3 weeks, many people will already find other P2P because they work better. In three months LW use base will go from 2.7 mill simulateneous users (trap_kaw crawler) to less than 500 000. By then, many Gnet apps will ban LW because of the leeching. The only major Gnutella app then will be Bearshare with its dead development! (but still the best Gnet app by far anyway).

Alternatives? Well since Gnutella will be illed, Gnet alternatives are not a very good thought. Multinetwork apps neither. Edonkey and Bittorrent are the only good network alternatives right now.

hehe, I do look pessimistic! :p Maybe I should submit that news to Slycktom...

CVS links:
http://www.limewire.org/fisheye/view...branch/limecvs
http://www.limewire.org/fisheye/view...branch/limecvs

4.9.30 is still OK to use.. its actually better to use 4.9.30 because of the better UP support.

Are you saying the future versions will only share licensed material? What qualifies material to be licensed? What types of files fall into this category? What video, audio, documents, images, etc. which specific types &/or files will be affected. I'm confused about this. I think this needs clarification. :confused: Will it affect Stief's shared material? Will it affect the type of material I stated I like to seek (material unavailable to buy)?

Yeah to #1. A licence like Creative Commons, Weed Share, GPL, LGPL, licences that make a file free of use. For any type of files. LW will probably have a server with a database of every file with a licence where legality will be checked. They will give the user the possiblity to licence a file (but verify it afterwards). Anyway, that licence thing will be a big mess and a flop. Hence the predictable vcorporate LW death when no one pays anymore for Pro (network death will happen sooner).

Ciao

What is your or anybody elses opinion of rare audio recordings such as unofficially recorded concerts ... would they be able to be licensed? And what about anonymity with licensing of files for sharing?

I think that licencing sucks. Just look at all the legal files over Gnet. Not even 1% of them are licenced.

Prepare your P2P alternative everybody....

BTW, I sent a link to this thread to SlyckTom of slyck.com as everybody should be in the know about that.

salut et voilà, mon ami

As soon as people realize that using or connecting to a LW version above 4.9.29 gets them into a controlled network, they will ask "where can we get an older version?"

We should share the installers that will help users remain freely connected.

(ultracross: ) 4.9.30 is already controlled by fewer ultrapeers, so I will participate only in a network of 4.9.29 Ultrapeers or earlier. I plan to ask for vendor/version blocking to help keep a free and open international network.

When the network consisted of 150K users, this still allowed much development to continue, and there is still lots of work to do before Mark Gorton's vision of an open and free network is realized.

gnutella is far from dead: we should encourage and facilitate those interested in F/LOSS to only use 4.29 and earlier. This will preserve the current network and provide an option to the controlled network.

Personally, I like the idea of ridding the network of all that audio crap :) Vive la texte et les images! Pardon my French.

LOTR: currently only audio files will be affected, but the code is ready to not share other extensions too. As far as I'm concerned, that's not the issue. It's that LW has been pressured into allowing the RIAA to exert influence over material and people outside of the USA. What hackers! "All your files belong to US :rolleyes: " Yeah right.

So: can you experts tell me this? Will sharing my 4.9.29 Pro.dmg be any use to other OS X users? I'm currently sharing LimeWire 4.9.29jum431 OS X (magnet available on request).

Salut Stief ;) Good idea about sharing 4.9.30 installers. I'll do that. As soon as frostwire.com is set up and has installers, I'll be sure that it gets a forum here so people can discuss and find an alternative with all the greatness of LW technology minus that CC branch.

Gnutella will survive, but boy those time with excess of 3,5 mill simultaneous users (again with trap_jaw crawler) will feel long ago and weird compared to what's coming. It is like 2002 Gnutella all over again :(

at least, LW forks will still keep LW technology alive, thanks to GPL and open source dev.

I will come here less often, because I'm really sad thinking about what we've been going through just to waste a proggy like that. Moreover, I lost faith in justice and freedom :(

Ciao

LW RIP
2000-2005
Killed by money and stupidity

I'm sure there's a no. of people who have older version installers lying around. I have 4.8.1 pro for pc & mac, I probably also have earlier & later for both around as well. This sort of breaks/kills that attitude of getting rid of older versions for the health & progression of the network. I presume versions above 4 are sought. (Thanks Stief for the explanation.)

LOTR, I'm trying to find out if it is OK to share the Pro installer . . . but the LimeWire 4.9.29jum431 OS X.dmg is OK. After all, it is almost the equivalent to Pro.

Users just need to search for and share "29jum.dmg" so that OSX users can participate in the current open network internationally. Thanks in advance to the windows users who share the jum installer: much appreciated.

Other options should be available soon: this is something we can do now.

There really is no big rush: this is just to demonstrate that the network is still free and open, and that the ideals of limewire.org can continue.

Cheers all and happy sharing: no need to despair about justice and freedom :D

Slyck story: http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14427

About Pro sharing... Well I would not share Pro installers right now, but I'll consider it once they release 4.9.31.

Ciao

stief

Here goes Grandpa being stupid again but I am thinking of setting one of my computers up to do nothing but run as a UP and share nothing but good copies of the all the different OS versions of LimeWire.

I am no programmer so how would I go about getting good copies of 4.9.29 since the current version is .30 and would not be able to tell if the versions I get from the network are corrupted or not.

this whole thing is very, very disturbing...

it looks like only major record labels are going to be able to distribute stuff in the near future...ppl like me, who without a doubt own all legal rights to their materials, will be unable to use the internet to freely distribute their works...what a farking joke...

just more proof that there is indeed a conspiracy to take over and control the world...who are the conspirators?...the rich of course, who else?

good idea GrandPa. I've already provided the search term needed for a reliable OS X installer; et voilà and other would know about other platforms. Just get the magnets from them.

and the story is out on http://p2pnet.net/story/6365 too.

Sigh. Lots of FUD to deal with soon.

The network is fine; current installations are fine; alternatives for future installers are available.

Peerless, I'll continue to share your music, and have no idea yet what kinds of hoops we'll have to jump through. Actually, I don't think I'll bother, but will just continue sharing it if that's OK with you. :D

I prefer the story out now then people realizing it when 4.9.31 is out. People are being warned and an appropriate measure can be taken more easily. Same thing with FUD, we'll avoid some since those stories are out.

hé Stief, nous sommes sur P2Pnet ;)

I'm beginning my hunt for 4.9.30 installers (4.9.30 is better for the network density --and search results-- than 4.9.29)

Ciao

c'est vraie about the FUD and news. Still, I wish we had more time to be able to prepare to help those who like the way things are.

Do you know if the installers are language specific? I'm thinking here of the non-english speaking users or those who use non-latin scripts like those in Asia and Eastern Europe. Philippe is off the net just now, but he would be able to help.

I was under the impression you select your language at the beginning of installation. It automatically defaults to your operating system language set up. Unless you're refering to CV versions or something.

(BTW I don't only have pro installers. I do have some jum & basic ones.)

There are no problems with languages, they are included in every installer of LW. I have now the basic versions for win, mac and others of 4.9.30. I will release them as magnets here when LW goes 4.9.31. In fact we should probably create a thread with magnet links when it happens along with other useful links.

I let the story go out because some time was elapsed after the news for us and that we don't know how soon the new version will happen. This will help people organize forks. Not only that, it also helps LW move looks more transparent rather than looking like conspiracy IMHO.

Ciao

Unfortunately I am on the road right now on good old Dial-up 26.4kbps. I am going to DL all of the installers I can find all Languages but I an not going to be able to help the people I am currently helping in the forum. If any body could would you pick up where I left off with them.

Merci. I'll share them as soon as I get the magnets.

I like it that LW has been so open and transparent. Thery still have my confidence and I'll continue to get donate to the Pro (even if I don't use restricted versions).

Welp, after reading this thread looks like this will really be my last upgrade to LW. I've already paid for the songs*******s Ive downloaded. The RIAA hasnt lost a dime from me. If I dl a old song from the 1950's, I shouldnt need a license to dl it. so stupid. time to boycott the RIAA again.

When LimeWire releases the DRM version, we (the limewire open-source community) will release our own DRM-free version. We will announce the release in the forums.

If you want to help with the development of the free LimeWire version, visit http://www.frostwire.com

I don't know much about the GPL, but could LW take their source code back under a more strict copyright?

Do they have any intention to do so?

Do they wish to create a closed network of their own in future?

I don't know much about the GPL, but could LW take their source code back under a more strict copyright?

No

Do they have any intention to do so?

No

Do they wish to create a closed network of their own in future?

No

well answered roger. :) i just want to add some information about frostwire. frostwire will be based on the limewire source code and will be as current with the source code as possible.

frostwire will be drm-free as trap_jaw already mentioned and in the near-future may include other features that the limewire development team is slow to implement (or i should say debating to implement.)

FrostWire provides the alternative to the LW user wishing to share their own files without specially licensing them.

Their was also some small discussions between developers about banning the LimeWire DRM versions from being allowed to download content from FrostWire clients that LimeWire does not freely allow to share. This would prevent FrostWire clients from recieving too much stress and massive leeching on upload requests. Although this was only discussed and there are no current plans to do this. (other clients like <insert your favorite leech here> were also mentioned)

[EDIT]
Excerpt from interview removed. This information was already made public, but I guess its still alittle unknown. Its best to just let you wait and see. ;)
[/EDIT]

If you are interested in helping with the development of FrostWire, please contact either me(aka alkalineX) or trap_jaw (aka gregorio) on the #LimeWire channel on server irc.freenode.net port 6667. we are currently in the proccess of creating a TODO list. so please be patient. please check the frostwire.com website for more details on what we are needing in development.

you will need a client such as mIRC (click here to get it!) to connect. mIRC is for the win32 system, other clients for other OS systems can probably be found in your distributions official packages. Example: apt-get install Xchat

When are you going to supply a donation page. Even though you are not going to have a pro version you will still need $$$ to operate. If you decide to set one up I for one will donate. And I will continue to support LimeWire. I admire what they have tried to do with the development of LimeWire.

This is really making me nervous what will be the status on Bearshare? BL looks like it already went by-by. I still have my old version which I will never part with. I will keep on using my old installs just like I did with Napster until they die. Ive feel like Ive already been through this already.

grandpa, we will consider adding a donation page if it becomes necessary. At the moment, we don't have any web traffic to speak of and we can get free hosting at sf.net and developer.berlios.de

More important than money will be help with creating the website and modifying the LimeWire MessageBundles for FrostWire (the FrostWire sources are currently located at http://developer.berlios.de/projects/limewire )

Sphinx, according to some of the folks at http://www.technutopia.com (the new BearShare forum) BearShare is still somewhat alive. They are still releasing new beta versions although the developers are currently not responsive.

Not responsive to me sounds like bad news ahead.:(

Hi Guys

Bad News to hear when you come back onto the forums :(

Good News about our fav prog continuing in another prog :D

I still have LimeWireWin Basic 4.9.23
LimeWireWin Basic 4.9.28
LimeWireWin Basic 4.9.30-full
LimeWireWin Pro 4.8.1
LimeWireWin Pro 4.9.0.1
LimeWireWin Pro 4.9.23
LimeWireWin Pro 4.9.28
LimeWireWin Pro 4.9.29

I Will Put them out to upload if people want me to

Sgt

wow you have all those installs? I wonder if LW goes bellyup if they'll still connect to Gnutella?

Does not "open sourse" mean that they will still connect? .....I'm not telling you ....I'm wondering if I am correct as I'm not sure.


Sgt welcome back!

open source means many things I don't understand, but at least it means you are allowed to look at the code, line by line. If the source was closed, you are not allowed to see those lines.

As far as LW's open source, you can copy it, change it, and distribute it. Hell--that's what the scammers have been doing.

The gnutella protocol is just a set of rules that allows computers to talk to each other. As long as one computer is running a gnutella client, another computer that knows the rules can connect to it, find out what files are being shared, and ask to download those files.

Heh--sounds so easy: but lw's code is currently about 1 million lines.

and welcome back. good to hear others can get the files they might want.

I'm just a humble user and don't know anything about how to alter code. That's why I asked if it will still allow us to connect without a struggle. Sounds like it still may. Good to hear. so, even if they try to put LW out of business we can still access Gnutella? ;)

HA! - stick it RIAA! :D

So far it looks like y'all are doing a good job at providing those installers. :)
I did a search on "LimeWire 4.9.30" and there was 195 people that had it.

Too bad that they aren't going to allow nonlicenced sharing in later versions...
Well, good luck. :)