Scam version of FrostWire

[Lord of the Rings]

I'm just wondering how long before this happens. I'd be curious to know what if anything could be done to prevent or stop it when or if it happens. There's always going to be the gullible to these types of advertisements who won't be aware it can be obtained for free.

[et voilà]

Well that means is that FW is now known, if you see positive side of things

Currently searching google gives frostwire 1 140 000 hits!!! It's growing exponentionally (search results wise). Weird since we don't even have availabe installers yet

Hurry beta, hurry, lol

Ciao

[pawelsz]

Many peoples will think about FROSTWIRE as another scam version of LIMEWIRE [just right now]


Maybe its war against FW ?

[Lord of the Rings]

Don't be mistaken, that image I posted is not real FW google ads. It was made from scam LW ads by replacing the name. But the point I'm trying to make is that eventually, it may well happen & what should or could be done about it is what I'm asking.

[stief]

I kinda doubt it will happen (the scammers depend on name recognition), but LW has had so much trouble getting those scammers stopped, I doubt FW will have better luck.

It hasn't happened with Phex, and it has been around a long time.

Hell--even these forums can't block those ads fast enough!

and pawelsz, thanks for getting rid of that oversized image. Why not just shrink it to avatar sizeif you want to keep using it?

[Only A Hobo]

It seems to me that the problem with the scam sites ... well the one that I got into as far as I could without releasing my CC details .... do not mention the name Limewire until you've paid your money and it's too late, so I'm not so sure the Scammers DO depend on name recognition. They just get the application which is easiest for them, and won't hopefully give them too many headaches. If the tried to spam phex, the spammers web site would crash with every single buyer asking how on earth it worked

How do you stop the spammers ... that's a question I think I'll sleep on G'night all

[stief]

Good night.

When you get a chance, compare what happens when you google "limewire," "frostwire" then "phex"

The scam sponsored links come out on top for LW here, which shows they've keyed on that term for my area. I figure it will be much the same for you

[Grandpa]

Hobo

I think you are going to have to sleep for a very long time to figure that one out. Not being pessimistic but if you could figure out how to stop the bottom feeding scammers you would be a very rich and powerful person.

You would have to be able to change the laws to where the penalties for scamming people would be so severe that the risk would not be worth the rewards.

[trap_jaw4]

Well, since FrostWire is free and word will get around that there is no PRO version of FrostWire, I believe those scams will not work in the long run.

Since it costs around € 1,000 to register a trademark, we can't force them to stop legally.

[verdyp]

Note that the modified sources of FrostWire are NOT legal, because it does not respect the original LimeWire authorship in its copyright notice.

Changing the copyright unilaterally from "Copyright (c) 2000-2005 Limewire" to "Copyright (c) Frostwire" is NOT permitted by the GPL. LimeWire MUST be credited as the original work, and the derivative work must make it clear that this is not the original LimeWire software.

If there are modifications that consists in bundling other software not based on LimeWire work, the additional copyright notices for the relevant parts must be integrated in addition to the original Limewire copyright. If Frostwire creates its own modules, it must publish them under a GPL licence, or a licence compatible with the GPL (i.e. a compatible licence listed by the GNU Foundation).

In fact I doubt of the claimed motivations that pushed to the creation of a separate FrostWire branch. Currently, LimeWire does not filter content.

It adds features that allows users to select whever or not to trust some content, by allowing them to verify the claimed licences of files shared on the Gnutella network (and now it integrates the support to verify the licence deeds under Creative Commons and WeedShare).

This is very different, because it is the user, not the software alone, that chooses and acts responsibly.

A user may continue effectively to download a copyrighted and restricted file from Gnutella, as long as it owns a licence for it.

And a user may share any copyrighted content on Gnutella as long as he has obteined a legal right to redistribute it freely on a public medium such as Gnutella. If that publishing user only has a limited right to be a distributor without allowing redistribution, then that user must attach a licence that binds the shared file to these distribution terms, and LimeWire will download that licence and will help downloaders to keep the track of this limitative licence.

Then it's up to users to act responsibly, and LimeWire will not filter files simply because it does not know whever the user is or is not allowed to share that file. In that case, LimeWire will not prevent users from doing that, but will display a warning to that user for files without clear licencing terms.

For files that have a clear licence, no limitation will be performed (except that users may also elect to apply additional filters against contents they consider offensive, such as pornography). It's not an unilateral decision implemented in the software, the user is always involved, and makes the final decision.

[stief]

Good points. Can you help make the necessary changes so FW can be fully compliant?

[et voilà]

Salut Philippe, I assure you the motives of FW are only to get pass the limits of the filter LW has in store, or else I wouldn't participate in it. Just look for that branch http://www.limewire.org/fisheye/view...ranch/limecvs/

Now, I'll contact those who have write access to CVS to correct that ASAP.

Merci

[verdyp]

Originally posted by trap_jaw4
Well, since FrostWire is free and word will get around that there is no PRO version of FrostWire, I believe those scams will not work in the long run.

Since it costs around € 1,000 to register a trademark, we can't force them to stop legally.

Yes but it costs less than €10 or $10 a year to register and host a domain name like "www.frostwire.org" that links now to more (really dangerous and illegal) scams...

Today, a domain name acts like a legal trademark as long as its registration is valid.

So if you think that FrostWire PRO does not exist, you can be sure that some "FrostWire PRO" scam will be created very soon that will claim that their version offers additional benefits face to the "basic" version of "FrostWire" (and I fear that such scam may be started from the "frostwire.org" website.

[verdyp]

Originally posted by et voilà
Salut Philippe, I assure you the motives of FW are only to get pass the limits of the filter LW has in store, or else I wouldn't participate in it. Just look for that branch http://www.limewire.org/fisheye/view...ranch/limecvs/

Note that is still a branch, and so something that is being tested. It does not expose the final policy that LimeWire will adopt in a final release. It does not indicate that this internal branch itself will be ever integrated. So the claims made by FrostWire on its web site are illegitimate, as such claimed unilateral filter still does not exist in LimeWire.

It seems normal to first check that the filter works effectively (in a restricted version limited for the time of tests), before adding a user-configurable option that will enable or disable that feature, that users may legitimately want in their software, to void legal harassment when using that software and when they can't easily manage the licencing terms themselves. So it's up to the software to help them...

So I don't see why this indicates that LimeWire will implement the filter unilaterally. Apparently, the branch includes changes in various parts of the code, and their intrication is not evident, and it is still under development and unstable.

[et voilà]

Philippe, you should join the official LW IRC channel, you would know it is coming... no way to avoid it. It is a branch for now, but a branch ready to get into mainline. LimeWire as we know it will change, and when that happens, everybody will be happy that an alternative based on the same engine will be already available. Most open source LW devs have already joined FW project, we would be happy if you consider in time to do the same.

À+

[rkapsi]

Philippe, I strongly suggest you to either join the #limewire channel (irc.freenode.net) or to contact somebody from the frostwire or limewire team! You're pretty much uninformed what's actually going on!

[Lord of the Rings]

Part of the above discussion refered to google ads. Some of these scam sites that advertise saying free/unlimited/lifetime memberships & downlds offer more than one softw. I'm not clear about this, but there appears to be offshoot sites/related chain sites, etc. such as those with the Squid logo (click to see GF forum image sample) that offer different softw's. One might be LW, one Raza, one winmx, etc. & perhaps one day one "FW". So we might not know just from google ads. The experience of those that have come from these type of scam sites has told of how they ended up with different softw's on different occasions. I've also seen some samples when checking up on these. People don't necessarily know which softw program they're getting before they pay. It could be any of those suggested above or others not specified here.

[verdyp]

Originally posted by et voilà
Philippe, you should join the official LW IRC channel, you would know it is coming... no way to avoid it. It is a branch for now, but a branch ready to get into mainline. LimeWire as we know it will change, and when that happens, everybody will be happy that an alternative based on the same engine will be already available. Most open source LW devs have already joined FW project, we would be happy if you consider in time to do the same.

À+

First I never use IRC. I don't like chatting.

Second, I remains sticked on the LimeWire project, as long as it remains an open-source project with a GPL licence or a comparable licence such as Creative Commons or a BSD-like licence

Yes, LimeWire LLC, because it is the legitimate copyright owner, can change its licencing terms for any future versionsand at any time. This is true for any open-source project, and should it ever happen it will not change the status of existing code that MUST continue to be distributed under the GPL, including all derivative works made by other people or organizations than LimeWire LLC.

Such restriction of Exclusive Licencing Terms does not apply to the copyright owner, only to those people that accepted the grant of usage by obtaining and using the software or its sources.

If anyone does not agree with those terms, the GPL explicitly states that the software must be deleted along with all its copies as well as all parts of derivative works based on software licenced under the GPL (including the modifications made by the user itself because those modifications!) and that user looses all its granted rights to redistribute legal copies of the software.

The GPL however states that existing copies granted to other users remain valid under the GPL term, even if the distributor has lost his previously granted distribution rights, and those users MUST still respect the original copyright notice and the licence, as they are bound to the original copyright holder, not to the distributor itself.

[rkapsi]

Philippe, if you don't like to chat... fine! But please contact somebody from frostwire or limewire! You've not the slightest clue what is currently going on!

[verdyp]

If ever Limewire wants to make this branch integrated the way it isdeveloped now, yes it would be a required filter. May be Limewire has its good reasons for doing that, including an injuntion by a court decision that may, if it this is not done in time, cause Limewire to be held responsiple for the copyight infrignements made by the users of its software.

If so, then be prepared with your own lawyers at Frostwire. I am not sure that you'll be able to pay the lawyers to defend yourself.

Seriously, I find it is enough for Limewire to include in the software a way to filter questionable contents, for users that don't want to pay the risk of downloading or uploading contents illegally.

But if this filter is made mandatory for all users, it would mean that Limewire takes the responsaibility of saying to its users what is really legal. Then suppose that a content is labelled with a falsified licence, other users may think the content is legal, so they may trust simply LimeWire for allowing them to do that.

Now suppose that the content is illegal and that user is charged of huge fines or jail sentences because they aheve downloaded or uploaded this content to Gnutella using the LimeWire software, then Limewire may be held responsible as it would have been part of the decision made by the user, thinking that the content was legally downloadable or sharable.

So a part of the responsability would be transfered from the user directly to LimeWire (because it would have given unjustified trust into the legality of the content), and this would be even more dangerous for the survival of Limewire itself.

So I am not convinced that this feature will be mandatory. It may become the default configuration, but users will still have the opportunity to disable it, and users will be informed that LimeWire cannot guarantee that the files that pass through the filter are all legal.

When you look at an existing message in the Limewire MessageBundle, this opinion is stated specifically: it says that LimeWire cannot certify that a content without a licence is legal or not. So this feature will be a help for users, and cannot be used instead of a mature decision by the users themselves.

I would really prefer that LimeWire does not put any nail of a finger, in trying to make the decision about the legality of a content instead of the users themselves.

The role of Limewire is to build a software and a common network, but not to endorse the resposability of the usage made with the software or the network by users. It should really adopt the same policy as telecom companies which coherently deny any implication in the usage of their network for illegal activities.

Then telcos can be forced by law to provide means for law enforcement organisms to allow investigation, after a law has been voted and entered into application that force them to provide such mean, but telcos themselves are still not reponsible of illagal acticities made by their subscribers.

The same applies to audio and video recorders, manufacturers of content supports (audio/video tapes, hard disks, and now flash memories as well): their commerce is legal, and none of these manufacturers are responsible of illegal use of their product.

On the opposite, I see good points in promoting the use of free licences on Gnutella. It demonstrates that the Gnutella is not made only to provide illegal contents, and it gives legitimacy to the existence of P2P networks. For this reason, LimeWire is making a legitimate business by making a software and network that allows performing useful and legal activities on a P2P network.

With this demonstration, the Gnutella network becomes much more legal and has a right of existence. The orgnizations and people that make, build or promote Gnutella softwares are then doing legitimate business, and all the illegal aspect of its use is transfered to its users, like for the telephone network which is a useful public commons since long.