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  #11 (permalink)  
Old December 17th, 2001
Posts: n/a

Originally posted by Abaris
afisk, you didn't answer my objections concerning the modem-exclusion for swarming. i ask you again to remove it. one highspeed connection downloading five files could easily consume 30 swarm sources. a modem user would hardly ever use more than 3 until his speed is maxed out.
The whole point is for a host to get the file as fast as it can so another host can download from them instead of lower speed connections. For example...

You have file X which is ~5MB (5120 bytes) and so do 5 other hosts (all modem users).

Well if host HS (highspeed) tries downloading file X from you he is more in likely to consume all your bandwidth. Saying ~5KB/s is your max total (exclude Gnutella and other network traffic at the moment).


5120 / 5 = 1024 (seconds)

1024 / 60 (secs; also 1 min) = ~17 (mins)

That means that Host HS would be consuming all your bandwidth for a total of 17 mins. That really sucks.

Now lets see how many mins it would take if Host HS was swarming you and the 5 other hosts for file X.

~17 (mins) / 6 (hosts) = ~3 mins (2.83)

Thats a lot faster!

Which means if Host AHS (another highspeed) down the road also wants file X. QoS (Quality of Service) results will likely show Host HS as the best source to download from. Or if Host AHS swarmed he would be leaving one or two modem users out by connecting to Host HS and also finishing at a faster rate b/c of Host AHS's connection.

therefore, it is not them who are responsible for having less upload slots. the highspeed users are.
Uhhh this isnt a war between modem and highspeed users. So just chill.

furthermore, the current swarming feature allows highspeed users to swarm from up to six modem users and decrease the little bit of bandwidth that they have, while a modem user can only download from one other modem user. sure, modem users don't profit as much as highspeed users. but that also means that they can't harm the network as much. this doesn't make any sense at all. how do you think i feel when i know that:

- highspeed users may swarm
- this decreases the number of upload slots
- therefore modem users (who hardly consume any slots compared to highspeed ones) are excluded from swarming
- but the highspeed ones are still eating up my bandwith in order to max out theirs?
There is nothing you can do about your bandwidth!? Thats like complaining who won an election when you're old enough to vote. Its just something you have to live with or get a faster connection.

if you want to ensure the number of available upload slots find better ways . for example, link the numer of allowed download connections to the number of upload slots. so a user who has allowed no more than 5 simultaneous uploads should not have more than 5 connections to simultaneously download from.
There should be no restriction from who you can download from. Why dont we just get the RIAA and MPAA to regulate the Gnutella network. I think most people follow that suggestion anyways. I dont try downloading from 20 different Hosts simultaneously. My bandwidth say ~100KB/s would be cut down to 5KB/s a download. Thats not very efficient if I wanted the file at that very instance. Same will modem users, you dont try to have 5 downloads simultaneously and expect to be able to load a webpage within 30-60 seconds.. Even if the bandwidth gets so slow the connection will timeout or the downloader will cancel. So what you have stated is pretty much already active among the gnutella community.

the way it is is not peer to peer at all. it is next to exploiting modem users. on a p2p network, either everyone should be allowed to benefit from swarming, or noone should.
-- awaiting comments
This isnt Commie P2P either.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old December 18th, 2001
Abaris's Avatar
Join Date: May 14th, 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 86
Abaris is flying high


i didn't say you were. i just meant to remind you. i am pretty sure that you have much to do and i understand that there may be difficulties in changing the measurement code and that you can't do it for the next release. nevertheless, i ask for the modem exclusion to being no more than temporarily.


> The whole point is for a host to get the file as fast as it can so
> another host can download from them instead of lower speed
> connections. For example...

thank you, teacher. i know what it is about.

> There is nothing you can do about your bandwidth!? Thats like
> complaining who won an election when you're old enough to
> vote. Its just something you have to live with or get a faster
> connection.

it is not like that at all. actually there are locations where cable or dsl connections are not available. i live in one. shall i move to another town ? i don't even want to have more bandwidth. i want to use that what i have more efficiently. what's bad with that ?

> There should be no restriction from who you can download

really ? why should you use more download connections than you are giving upload connections ? why should you use more bandwidth for downloading than you offer for uploading ? what you say is a mandate for freeloading.

> Why dont we just get the RIAA and MPAA to regulate the
> Gnutella network. [...] This isnt Commie P2P either.

now do you take me for a communist or for an RIAA lobbyist? it seems that i am both to you...interesting really

> you dont try to have 5 downloads simultaneously and expect to
> be able to load a webpage within 30-60 seconds

Just listen: when i download a file, i get a transfer rate of 1-2 kbps most of the time. this is not due to network traffic - when i download two different files simultaneously, i get much more. but i don't want to download two different files in order to use my bandwidth effectively. i want to download one file from two sources simultaneously. when i download a 100mb file (what i don't do frequently), shall i download another 100mb of mp3s (that i don't even want at that time) in order to not waste my bandwidth?

don't write nonsense about Commies and the RIAA, but answer me one simple question: if i am allowed to download two or three different files simultaneously, why should i not be allowed to downlad one file from two or three different sources simultaneously ? why is the latter one hurting the network ?

maybe a 2-3 kbps gain is not much to you. it is the world to me. it more than doubles my transfer speed. you benefit of swarming, why shouldn't i? i don't hurt the network more than you do. a swarm download of n sources uses these sources for 1/n of the time than a standard download, being a modem user or t3 user does not matter a heck.

when developers are troubled about decreasing the number of available upload slots when everyone uses swarming, they should bind download connections to possible upload connections. they should not select one group of users and disable swarming for them. this is not about communism, it is about fairness.

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