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Download/Upload Problems Problems with downloading or uploading files through the Gnutella network.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2002
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally posted by fryer69
Thanks for the advice it has helped a great deal
although i still cant download warcraft3 from anyone although there are 50+ in one section i still get requery sent waiting for results any suggestions
cheers for the help without ppl like u us us users would be dead in the water
trhx again fryer
Thanks--I'm glad the information was useful to you.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2002
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Default Re: ip test please?

Quote:
Originally posted by donnamb
I would like to test my IP address as mentioned above. I have uploaded quite a few files since I first logged into Gnutella last night, but they cannot be found in a search. I use a Mac at home with a broadband connection and limewire 2.7.13. I believe I have enabled the ip to be forced and followed all other suggestions for uploading and downloading. Still, I am concerned my files are not available to others.

Thank you,

Donna



Check your library tab in limewire under the uploads column x/y
where x is a successful upload and y is an attempted upload. If you see values for x then everything is working okay. If you see values in y then that means that an attempt was made but may have been aborted for some reason usually at the remote users request.

As for you not finding the files you have uploaded. Please keep in mind that because someone uploaded files from you doesn't mean that they will share them. Also it is a high likelyhood that if they are sharing the files they are outside of your search horizon or, you are filtering the results coming from those hosts by applying the techniques discussed in my first post.


Please let us know how it goes.


Hope this helps.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2002
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Wink Regarding Comments from Trap_Jaw

Trap_Jaw says....

"In addition it will reduce the number of four-star results left over for people who are behind firewalls and who are depending on those four-star results (while non-firewalled users can easily download from 3-star results). Furthermore if a search for rare content returns you only 1-star results you will see no results at all, although there is a good chance you could be queued in the 1-star hosts upload-queue or that the 1-star host could tell you who else might have that file."


This is true and possible-however the subject of my post was "Maximizing Upload/Download Success." The intended audiance are those people who join the gnutella network and try for hours to download things unsuccessfully. This solution offers them immediate gratification.

So as I'm sure you have seen this has helped more people than you can image. I have received very few complaints about using these methods. So, I'm not sure I understand where your going with your comments.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Go to tools/options/filters/hosts under the disallow all messages from specific hosts add the following IPs: 192.168.*.* AND 10.*.*.*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trap_Jaw says....

"Not a good idea either. While firewalled users could never download from the hosts you block, a normal user ((could with a little luck.)) Apart from that you are effectively blocking ALL firewalled users who don't know how to force their IP address from Gnutella."

Luck is one thing. The purpose of my post is to provide users with a since of satisfaction. Again, I've received very few complaints about the methodologies I've outline. I should add however any user experienced enough to use this service with any success doesn't need this information. However for people you just like to jump on the computer and actually accomplish download something this information is very valuable to them. Yes - I am suggesting that people block all of the people who don't now how to force IPs for use on Gnutella. (This is part of the problem - these users cause tremendous amounts of frustration for other users. I assume, and it appears correctly, that they will figure it out when sharing lots of files with lots of hits an no uploads that something is wrong.) This thread was started to help them solve this problem. So, in my personal opinion I think it is a good idea.




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I make this suggestion to filter out all the host who have incorrectly forwarded their private IP address on the network. These IP addresses are NOT routable and you will NOT be able to connect and download content from these hosts so ignore results from these guys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trap_Jaw says....

"That's wrong. LimeWire will not try to connect to them directly. It will broadcast a PUSH request so those firewalled hosts will make a connection to you, offering the file you wanted."

I think we are confusing Firewalled and NATed host issues. When you force the right IP on the network the PUSH requests work correctly. If you don't, this is what happens.


#1 Ping/Query Messages travel from Host to Host looking for content until the ttl has expired
#2 Pong/Responses Recurse the Query path to find the the host that issued the query. If my machine is a NATed machine it will respond with the ip of my private net. (192.168.*.* or 10.*.*.*) I would not be able to DOWNLOAD or send a PUSH request to this IP address. As the mechanism for doing file tranfers don't take place within the Gnutella network but between the two hosts i.e. the one issuing the query and the one responding to the query.

Trap_Jaw says....

"And don't forget to filter "/" while you're at it, since this character causes 90% of all CouldNotMoveToLibrary errors."

This was a good call as it is a problem experienced by many users.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[B]1. Make sure that you are not sharing from a work or school location as peer to peer traffic tends to be administratively prohibited. although it may not be explicitly blocked they could be applying quality of service rules to your traffic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trap_Jaw says....

"That means you cannot share with 100% of the bandwidth, so what? Most of the time you will not be able to connect to Gnutella at all, - and if you can connect to Gnutella you can probably share, too."

The reason I mention this is because in the cases where QoS is applied to P2P traffic the polocies tend to be strick which means that almost no-bandwidth is allocated to P2P traffic. So for instance anyone downloading or uploading on these connection can expect serious problems with the files tranfers. Take for instance a QoS polocies that says allow 4Kbps to P2P traffic means:

MP3 Size * BitRate = SizeInBit / QoSBitRateAllows = SecondsToDownload / MinutesToDownload = Download Time.


So, to download or upload a 4MB MP3 file with this QoS policy would take 2.2 Hrs to download/upload (So What?)
Limewire would report this as 0.5KB.

I Personally don't think that people with faster connection like waiting that long for a single file.

Hope this helps to clarify my position.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2002
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Default Re: Regarding Comments from Trap_Jaw

Quote:
"Not a good idea either. While firewalled users could never download from the hosts you block, a normal user ((could with a little luck.)) Apart from that you are effectively blocking ALL firewalled users who don't know how to force their IP address from Gnutella."

Luck is one thing. The purpose of my post is to provide users with a since of satisfaction.
A significant number of users has no direct connection to the internet, - and you are trying to help some users (with good connections who don't really need that help) while hurting others (who already have a lower QoS because they're firewalled). I don't even think you are effectively helping anyone, since you are telling people with good connections to ignore a good number of hosts they could actually download from.

Quote:
Again, I've received very few complaints about the methodologies I've outline.
That does not suprise me. Some users will see a better ratio of search results to working downloads. That's not because you helped them increase the number of working downloads but reduce the number of overall results (also ignoring results that might have worked without problems).

Quote:
Yes - I am suggesting that people block all of the people who don't now how to force IPs for use on Gnutella.
Forcing your IP address does not work in any case: You will need a router that supports port-forwarding and it has to be properly configured, too. Otherwise people will connect to your router (since you forced its IP address) and the router will simply discard those connection attempts because it doesn't know what to do with it. In some cases you will have to ask the admin of your network to set up port-forwarding for you, for example, - and that's not good if you are using Gnutella at a university or at school.
That's what PUSH was invented for. It works even when your IP is not forced.

Quote:
I think we are confusing Firewalled and NATed host issues. When you force the right IP on the network the PUSH requests work correctly. If you don't, this is what happens.


#1 Ping/Query Messages travel from Host to Host looking for content until the ttl has expired
#2 Pong/Responses Recurse the Query path to find the the host that issued the query. If my machine is a NATed machine it will respond with the ip of my private net. (192.168.*.* or 10.*.*.*) I would not be able to DOWNLOAD or send a PUSH request to this IP address.
You clearly didn't understand how PUSH works. - The PUSH message will recurse the path of the response and will reach the firewalled host through the peers that transmitted the queryhit to you. If you got a queryhit from a firewalled host and you are accepting incoming connections, you will be able to download from it. Forcing your IP address makes your NAT transparent, so you can accept incoming connections and you won't appear to be firewalled to anyone else on the network.

Quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Make sure that you are not sharing from a work or school location as peer to peer traffic tends to be administratively prohibited. although it may not be explicitly blocked they could be applying quality of service rules to your traffic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trap_Jaw says....

"That means you cannot share with 100% of the bandwidth, so what? Most of the time you will not be able to connect to Gnutella at all, - and if you can connect to Gnutella you can probably share, too."

The reason I mention this is because in the cases where QoS is applied to P2P traffic the polocies tend to be strick which means that almost no-bandwidth is allocated to P2P traffic. So for instance anyone downloading or uploading on these connection can expect serious problems with the files tranfers. Take for instance a QoS polocies that says allow 4Kbps to P2P traffic means:

MP3 Size * BitRate = SizeInBit / QoSBitRateAllows = SecondsToDownload / MinutesToDownload = Download Time.


So, to download or upload a 4MB MP3 file with this QoS policy would take 2.2 Hrs to download/upload (So What?)
Limewire would report this as 0.5KB.
That's what swarming is for - and I have no problem with waiting 2.2 hours, - it's better than if those people weren't sharing at all. Besides, I don't think you have any numbers on how many networks are effectively applying those policies. - You might very well be telling a lot of people to stop sharing files although their connection is perfectly alright.

Last edited by trap_jaw; November 30th, 2002 at 05:17 PM.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2002
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Default Re: Re: Regarding Comments from Trap_Jaw

Quote:
Originally posted by trap_jaw
A significant number of users has no direct connection to the internet, - and you are trying to help some users (with good connections who don't really need that help) while hurting others (who already have a lower QoS because they're firewalled). I don't even think you are effectively helping anyone, since you are telling people with good connections to ignore a good number of hosts they could actually download from.
Personally I don't think being behind a firewall is such a big deal. In fact the program works find with most firewall implementations. Thus many of those people are able to participate without much issue. The people who have the most failure are the ones with firewall / NAT implementations that are configured correctly. There at least 4 different types of NAT implementations and anyone with a remote understanding of NAT knows that there are some problem with using NATed based hosts with certain Internet Applications.


Quote:
Originally posted by trap_jaw
That does not suprise me. Some users will see a better ratio of search results to working downloads. That's not because you helped them increase the number of working downloads but reduce the number of overall results (also ignoring results that might have worked without problems).
It is also noted in my original post that by taking these measures one would see significantly less results. My intention being why do a search that returns a large amounts of results and only a few, will after much attempting will actually work. Come-on, You've been on the forum you know that this is a problem.

Quote:
Originally posted by trap_jaw
Forcing your IP address does not work in any case: You will need a router that supports port-forwarding and it has to be properly configured, too. Otherwise people will connect to your router (since you forced its IP address) and the router will simply discard those connection attempts because it doesn't know what to do with it. In some cases you will have to ask the admin of your network to set up port-forwarding for you, for example, - and that's not good if you are using Gnutella at a university or at school.
That's what PUSH was invented for. It works even when your IP is not forced.
You just described a typical situation involving a standard firewall which is usually not a NAT based implementation.


Quote:
Originally posted by trap_jaw
You clearly didn't understand how PUSH works. - The PUSH message will recurse the path of the response and will reach the firewalled host through the peers that transmitted the queryhit to you. If you got a queryhit from a firewalled host and you are accepting incoming connections, you will be able to download from it. Forcing your IP address makes your NAT transparent, so you can accept incoming connections and you won't appear to be firewalled to anyone else on the network.
You clearly didn't read my post before replying. (I think we are confusing Firewalled and NATed host issues. When you force the right IP on the network the PUSH requests work correctly.)

Quote:
Originally posted by trap_jaw
That's what swarming is for - and I have no problem with waiting 2.2 hours, - it's better than if those people weren't sharing at all. Besides, I don't think you have any numbers on how many networks are effectively applying those policies. - You might very well be telling a lot of people to stop sharing files although their connection is perfectly alright.
Quote:
Originally posted by trap_jaw
In some cases you will have to ask the admin of your network to set up port-forwarding for you, for example, - and that's not good if you are using Gnutella at a university or at school.
I think it's a safe bet to assume that high percentage of sudden problems uploading/downloading from a school or work location and I'll even go as far as saying from some ISPs is a problem. For example any one large school or University that decides to crack down on p2p use could affect upwards to 1,200 users with the implementation of a Qos Policy and this is assuming approximately 1% p2p use.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old December 1st, 2002
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Default Re: Re: Re: Regarding Comments from Trap_Jaw

Quote:
Personally I don't think being behind a firewall is such a big deal. In fact the program works find with most firewall implementations. Thus many of those people are able to participate without much issue.
You are talking about personal firewalls, here. The term 'firewall' also applies for routers which can serve e.g. as a proxy between the internet and a LAN.

Quote:
There at least 4 different types of NAT implementations and anyone with a remote understanding of NAT knows that there are some problem with using NATed based hosts with certain Internet Applications.
The problem with node behind a router is that it won't accept incoming packets without setting up port forwarding. NAT means "Network Address Translation" (same as IP Masquerading for *n*x users). On a LAN you would be sending packets meant for some host outside you LAN to your router. Your router will disassemble that packet and exchange your local IP address for the router IP address on the internet. However, if the router receives a packet from the internet, it does not know where to send it on the LAN, unless you set up the router to forward all incoming packets e.g. with a certain destination port to you. If you are using a router without NAT, you will not be able connect to gnutella.

Quote:
You just described a typical situation involving a standard firewall which is usually not a NAT based implementation.
Come on, don't act like you knew what NAT is.

Quote:
You clearly didn't read my post before replying. (I think we are confusing Firewalled and NATed host issues. When you force the right IP on the network the PUSH requests work correctly.)
PUSH REQUEST ALSO WORK WHEN THE CORRECT IP IS NOT FORCED! I DID READ YOUR POST AND YOU SIMPLY DON'T GET HOW PUSH WORKS!

Quote:
I think it's a safe bet to assume that high percentage of sudden problems uploading/downloading from a school or work location and I'll even go as far as saying from some ISPs is a problem.
It's not a safe bet. The vast majority of really fast connections (T1, T3+) are from schools, universities and from work locations. Blocking them is just stupid.

I don't think this discussion is leading anywhere. If you don't believe me that your "advice" doesn't improve anything it's okay with me - I mean you are LeeWare, you're helping people, you're the master of the universe - but still you don't have a clue about the way the gnutella network or the internet in general works. So please, don't try to explain them to others.
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Old December 1st, 2002
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Talking We're Waiting .....

Trap_jaw....


Since it appears that you have superior knowlege of the various facets of technology and how they work together. I am looking forward to YOU posting a thread that adequately addresses the concerns raised on the forum.

I'm sure everyone here would welcome your input as it would be more helpful than your technical analysis of the methologies I've posted.

Please save us from our own stupidity.

It your show and I realize you can't help it. You'll just have to say something.
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Last edited by LeeWare; December 1st, 2002 at 09:15 AM.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old December 4th, 2002
lizardflix
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Default Upload problems

I have really tried everything suggested that I can understand and still seem to be unable to share files. I show a number of files as being shared at the bottom of my limewire window but when I go to the library tab, although I show plenty of hits, my upload column is all 0s.

I am on a Mac OSX using a router on a cable connection.

I've done the force IP address as suggested as well.

Is there something that I am missing?

Excuse my ignorance but I don't want to be a freeloader.

Thanks
bb
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old December 4th, 2002
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Default

The force IP thingy does not work unless you set up port-forwarding (if you don't know how to do that - you might as well leave the force IP stuff out). -

If LimeWire says that it is sharing files and if you are able to download files from other hosts it is also possible for others to access your files as long as they are not behind a router, too.
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Old December 6th, 2002
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Default Re: Upload problems

Quote:
Originally posted by lizardflix
I have really tried everything suggested that I can understand and still seem to be unable to share files. I show a number of files as being shared at the bottom of my limewire window but when I go to the library tab, although I show plenty of hits, my upload column is all 0s.

I am on a Mac OSX using a router on a cable connection.

I've done the force IP address as suggested as well.

Is there something that I am missing?

Excuse my ignorance but I don't want to be a freeloader.

Thanks
bb
Please see the following thread for more information

NAT Issues / Uploads
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