Gnutella Forums  

Go Back   Gnutella Forums > Gnutella News and Gnutelliums Forums > General Gnutella Development Discussion
Register FAQ The Twelve Commandments Members List Calendar Arcade Find the Best VPN Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

General Gnutella Development Discussion For general discussion about Gnutella development.


Welcome To Gnutella Forums

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, fun aspects such as the image caption contest and play in the arcade, and access many other special features after your registration and email confirmation. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! (click here) (Note: we use Yandex mail server so make sure yandex is not on your email filter or blocklist.)

If you have any problems with the Gnutella Forum registration process or your Gnutella Forum account login, please contact us (this is not for program use questions.) Your email address must be legitimate and verified before becoming a full member of the forums. Please be sure to disable any spam filters you may have for our website, so that email messages can reach you.
Note: Any other issue with registration, etc., send a Personal Message (PM) to one of the active Administrators: Lord of the Rings or Birdy.

Once registered but before posting, members MUST READ the FORUM RULES (click here) and members should include System details - help us to help you (click on blue link) in their posts if their problem relates to using the program. Whilst forum helpers are happy to help where they can, without these system details your post might be ignored. And wise to read How to create a New Thread

Thank you

If you are a Spammer click here.
This is not a business advertising forum, all member profiles with business advertising will be banned, all their posts removed. Spamming is illegal in many countries of the world. Guests and search engines cannot view member profiles.



           Deutsch?              Español?                  Français?                   Nederlands?
   Hilfe in Deutsch,   Ayuda en español,   Aide en français et LimeWire en françaisHulp in het Nederlands

Forum Rules

Support Forums

Before you post to one of the specific Client Help and Support Conferences in Gnutella Client Forums please look through other threads and Stickies that may answer your questions. Most problems are not new. The Search function is most useful. Also the red Stickies have answers to the most commonly asked questions. (over 90 percent).
If your problem is not resolved by a search of the forums, please take the next step and post in the appropriate forum. There are many members who will be glad to help.
If you are new to the world of file sharing please do not be shy! Everyone was ‘new’ when they first started.

When posting, please include details for:
Your Operating System ....... Your version of your Gnutella Client (* this is important for helping solve problems) ....... Your Internet connection (56K, Cable, DSL) ....... The exact error message, if one pops up
Any other relevant information that you think may help ....... Try to make your post descriptive, specific, and clear so members can quickly and efficiently help you. To aid helpers in solving download/upload problems, LimeWire and Frostwire users must specify whether they are downloading a torrent file or a file from the Gnutella network.
Members need to supply these details >>> System details - help us to help you (click on blue link)


Moderators

There are senior members on the forums who serve as Moderators. These volunteers keep the board organized and moving.
Moderators are authorized to: (in order of increasing severity)
Move posts to the correct forums. Many times, members post in the wrong forum. These off-topic posts may impede the normal operation of the forum.
Edit posts. Moderators will edit posts that are offensive or break any of the House Rules.
Delete posts. Posts that cannot be edited to comply with the House Rules will be deleted.
Restrict members. This is one of the last punishments before a member is banned. Restrictions may include placing all new posts in a moderation queue or temporarily banning the offender.
Ban members. The most severe punishment. Three or more moderators or administrators must agree to the ban for this action to occur. Banning is reserved for very severe offenses and members who, after many warnings, fail to comply with the House Rules. Banning is permanent. Bans cannot be removed by the moderators and probably won't be removed by the administration.


The Rules

1. Warez, copyright violation, or any other illegal activity may NOT be linked or expressed in any form. Topics discussing techniques for violating these laws and messages containing locations of web sites or other servers hosting illegal content will be silently removed. Multiple offenses will result in consequences. File names are not required to discuss your issues. If filenames are copyright then do not belong on these forums & will be edited out or post removed. Picture sample attachments in posts must not include copyright infringement.

2. Spamming and excessive advertising will not be tolerated. Commercial advertising is not allowed in any form, including using in signatures.

3. There will be no excessive use of profanity in any forum.

4. There will be no racial, ethnic, or gender based insults, or any other personal attacks.

5. Pictures may be attached to posts and signatures if they are not sexually explicit or offensive. Picture sample attachments in posts must not include copyright infringement.

6. Remember to post in the correct forum. Take your time to look at other threads and see where your post will go. If your post is placed in the wrong forum it will be moved by a moderator. There are specific Gnutella Client sections for LimeWire, Phex, FrostWire, BearShare, Gnucleus, Morpheus, and many more. Please choose the correct section for your problem.

7. If you see a post in the wrong forum or in violation of the House Rules, please contact a moderator via Private Message or the "Report this post to a moderator" link at the bottom of every post. Please do not respond directly to the member - a moderator will do what is required.

8. Any impersonation of a forum member in any mode of communication is strictly prohibited and will result in banning.

9. Multiple copies of the same post will not be tolerated. Post your question, comment, or complaint only once. There is no need to express yourself more than once. Duplicate posts will be deleted with little or no warning. Keep in mind a forum censor may temporarily automatically hold up your post, if you do not see your post, do not post again, it will be dealt with by a moderator within a reasonable time. Authors of multiple copies of same post may be dealt with by moderators within their discrete judgment at the time which may result in warning or infraction points, depending on severity as adjudged by the moderators online.

10. Posts should have descriptive topics. Vague titles such as "Help!", "Why?", and the like may not get enough attention to the contents.

11. Do not divulge anyone's personal information in the forum, not even your own. This includes e-mail addresses, IP addresses, age, house address, and any other distinguishing information. Don´t use eMail addresses in your nick. Reiterating, do not post your email address in posts. This is for your own protection.

12. Signatures may be used as long as they are not offensive or sexually explicit or used for commercial advertising. Commercial weblinks cannot be used under any circumstances and will result in an immediate ban.

13. Dual accounts are not allowed. Cannot explain this more simply. Attempts to set up dual accounts will most likely result in a banning of all forum accounts.

14. Video links may only be posted after you have a tally of two forum posts. Video link posting with less than a 2 post tally are considered as spam. Video link posting with less than a 2 post tally are considered as spam.

15. Failure to show that you have read the forum rules may result in forum rules breach infraction points or warnings awarded against you which may later total up to an automatic temporary or permanent ban. Supplying system details is a prerequisite in most cases, particularly with connection or installation issues.

Violation of any of these rules will bring consequences, determined on a case-by-case basis.


Thank You! Thanks for taking the time to read these forum guidelines. We hope your visit is helpful and mutually beneficial to the entire community.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old November 9th, 2001
Novicius
 
Join Date: November 9th, 2001
Posts: 4
ctempleton3 is flying high
Lightbulb Improve Download Host/Speed

Download Cache

As the Gnutella network grows the amount of available clients to download files from decreases there need to be a built in system to compensate for this. Besides the fact that everone should share there files.

The solution that I see is that of an upload cache on each computer that will store a certain amount of hard drive space that can be allocated to store the most used files on the network. The Gunetella client monitors the push requests coming past the computer to figure out what files are the most requested. When the user of the computer goes idle and the computer processing and bandwidth are not being taxed the client can search for the most requested file. The client could reach out and download the file. Once the file has been downloaded into the cache that file could then be shared.

If this system was to be implemented then there would have to be safety algorithms to protect the client, and bandwidth of the user. The first problem that would have to be addressed is the problem of all the clients on the network downloading most requested file on the network while ignoring the second third fourth and fifth most downloaded files and so on. This could be solved by when the client send out a search request to find clients that contain the file to download from, the client can count the number of clients that already hold that file that is searching for. If the number is deemed large then that file would be skipped and it would move on to the next file. The second way to combat this problem would be that when an automatic cache download is requested that it only request it directly instead of through a push request. This would keep the other clients on the network from would confuse the automatic cache download instead of request as an actual user downloading a file.

I think the other value that must be calculated is the maximum single file download size should be controlled by the size of the bandwidth. This would protect the modem user from downloading a 100 megabyte mpeg. The maximum file size that should be downloaded is by the available bandwidth subtracted by the bandwidth that Gnutella network uses to keep the client function properly on the network. This bandwidth should be multiplied by approximately 10 minutes. That way if the user returns and the file is downloading or uploading it would not monopolize the user bandwidth for an extended period of time but would always be within 10 minutes of being done(10 minutes is a arbitrary time, it may need to be increased or decreased to find optimum performance.) This statement is true unless you have a low speed connection downloading from a high speed connection. Under these circumstances it would not be unobtrusive due to the fact the user still has bandwidth available. There are already is maximum upload speed built into most clients (This should be suspended if the computer is idle.)

The next problem to be implemented is that of cache filters. There are many people that would be offended if there computer hosted adult material for other people. There would have to be an adult filter on due to this. Also the user could state if he did not want to store programs or music on his computer. Maybe a keyword filter could be added to for more flexibility.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old November 9th, 2001
Moak's Avatar
Guest
 
Join Date: September 7th, 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 816
Moak is flying high
Default swarmimg

yeah, swarming is a very good idea! It could increase the download speed for all of us and also make an end of freeloading.

Just in case you want to see an old posting (see bottom of first page):
http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...light=swarming
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old November 9th, 2001
Novicius
 
Join Date: November 9th, 2001
Posts: 4
ctempleton3 is flying high
Default

Swarming is a good idea, but correct me if I am wrong it can not work on the current network procalls. if it can how would it be implimted. I am specificly would like to know how client would relate thousands of smaller files and peice them togther to one larger file. Also what would happen if users are offline that have crucial peices of the file. Would the download fail or would it have to wait maby an extended amount of time till a client logs in that has the file and is not busy? Swarming sounds good for smaller size files but puts a practical limit on the size of the file this could work with.

I am realy intrested in this could you please elbrate some more on your idea.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old November 9th, 2001
Moak's Avatar
Guest
 
Join Date: September 7th, 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 816
Moak is flying high
Default More about a Gnutella Swarming idea

Hmm yes, the current Gnutella protocoll would be basically okay for swarming.

Suprising, isn't it? Some smaller changes I guess, but all compatible to older clients, most ideas are allready discussed somewhere or proposed by other users. A new client must provide extra logic, to maintain a pool of swarming parts:

Finding most requested files is the first item: Every client could maintain a statistics of highly uploaded files (files often downloaded by other users from itself) and tells other clients which they are (e.g. once on connect). I think we should not use search queries to maintain these statistics, because they are too inaccurate and upcoming query caches or super peers (which I both highly recommend) would falsify those results. Every client can now calculate which files are highly requested (within the current horizon) and tries to download a random part from a random client. Then adds this part into a swarming pool. This pool could be refreshed time by time and should not grow over a specific size (e.g. some MBs on harddisk).

Finding matching partials (I call the small parts of a file "partials") could be easy solved: Just run a normal search. - Okay, we should add an improvement here: As far as we know from multiple source resuming servants (e.g Xolox), there is a problem with not matching partials. It happens that downloaded partials do NOT match to each other and a lot of bandwith is wasted by downloading partials which are not from the same file (Xolox and that 80%-90%-99%-50% problem). Ooops, to avoid this... I would highly recommend to add hashs to any gnutella traffic that is file-related (search and download). A 'hash' is a unique identifyer (or call it a kind of checksum) for a file within a typical horizon. So indexing files and exchange hashs could be a clue to improve "automatic researches" which indeed is a "must-have" for paralled or multihosted downloads. Why? Once you have downloaded 25% of a file called "Shritney Pears.doc" and the host disappears, you need to download the remaining somewhere else. Automatic researches for "Pears" can help, but only if you use a unique hash, you make sure that results match.... before even downloading them.

Downloading partials is an allready solved item: Right now only Xolox provides parallel downloads from multiple peers (fast!) and as another example all FastTrack clients do (Morpheus/Kazaa/Grokster)... but wait a while, more will come for sure! Parallel or segmented downloads of one file is a "must-have" for swarming, no protocoll change at all needed.

As an advantage from swarming I see especially making low bandwith user (modem user) to be a valueable resource! No more free loading and higher bandwith for all.

Hope it helps, Moak

PS: Another cool feature to improve downloads could be "specialized gnutella horizons"... if you're interested read this: http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...p?postid=13760

Last edited by Moak; November 9th, 2001 at 10:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old November 9th, 2001
Moak's Avatar
Guest
 
Join Date: September 7th, 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 816
Moak is flying high
Default

PS: Limewire want to add swarming in future (concerning to a posting in their forum). Maybe they wanna describe some details or point us to other discusions?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old November 12th, 2001
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: More about a Gnutella Swarming idea

Quote:
Originally posted by Moak
Hmm yes, the current Gnutella protocoll would be basically okay for swarming.

Finding most requested files
Finding matching partials
Downloading partials
Let me tell you my point of view. Your proposals seems to me too complicated to implement in the Gnutella network and brings little improvement (IMHO).

I think the worst thing about the network is the traffic needed to stay connected (pings/pongs), and the traffic that all queries generate; this is where all efforts should be made. A modem user will use most of his/her bandwitdh just to stay connected, leaving almost no bandwith for downloads/uploads. A new connection schema may be required to fix this, but then it is difficult to keep compatibility with existing clients. With lower requirements in bandwith for connection you can download/upload faster, and only then you can start to think about swarming d/l or anything else.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old November 12th, 2001
Moak's Avatar
Guest
 
Join Date: September 7th, 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 816
Moak is flying high
Default

Hey Guest, I think that's not reflecting gnutella reality IMHO.

About traffic: Ping and pongs are not causing a high gnutella backbone traffic, AFAIK it's the queries and hits that cause it (see gnutella protocoll and traffic statistics). A super peer concept together with a search-cache (described in my text, linked above) could reduce this traffic (queries/hits and also ping/pongs).

About swarming: It's important to make use of modem user. Why? Right now their bandwith is nearly completely wasted and they are often "forced" to be freeloader. Both is very unhealthy for the gnutella network, gnutella means sharing, yeah. When you see how many modem users are on gnutella, the high amout of wasted bandwith is... wow!
As a second point, swarming will spread often requested files over the network. Why is this interesting? We know that right now a small amout of servants serve a lot of files and high amount of servants serve less or no files. This means that some high freqent queried servants have to stand a high load and show buys most time. Swarming could balance this out.

So..... If more people would share, there would be much more files and higher bandwith available for all. While high bandwith users can share the traditional way, swarming is a key to make low bandwith users share with the network. For both, for high and low bandwith users, sharing should mean there is a guaranteed high percentage of bandwith available for their own use! Swarming WILL NOT reduce significant the download ratio for modem users, actually it will highly INCREASE the availability of files and the speed to download for modem users and all other.

Conclusion: There are many ideas to envolve Gnutella and all work together...
1. A superpeer concept for dynamic traffic routing = reducing backbone traffic + improves network toplogy + increases horizon (more available files)
2. Search-caches for reducing double/multiple routed traffic = reducing high amout of search backbone traffic
3. Swarming technology = make use of the high amout of wasted bandwith + will spread often requested files + balance load + less "busy" servants (more available files)

Hope I could explain better.
Greets, Moak

Last edited by Moak; November 12th, 2001 at 07:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old November 13th, 2001
Pataya
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Limewire does not need to discuss with you. Stop it, because most gnutella developers are not interested in talking with interested users.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old November 14th, 2001
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Moak

About traffic: Ping and pongs are not causing a high gnutella backbone traffic, AFAIK it's the queries and hits that cause it (see gnutella protocoll and traffic statistics). A super peer concept together with a search-cache (described in my text, linked above) could reduce this traffic (queries/hits and also ping/pongs).
Yes, you're probably right about this. Caching queries could help a lot. This way the Gnutella client will send searches to other peers only after the entries on the cache being queried by a peer expire.

However when I connect from home with modem to Gnutella, most of the bandwith is used even I'm not not downloading/uploading, making almost impossible to use Gnutella with modem; I'm sharing files but I don't think anyone will be able to download much at 2 Kb/s or less... With ADSL is different, thought.

Quote:
About swarming: It's important to make use of modem user. Why? Right now their bandwith is nearly completely wasted and they are often "forced" to be freeloader.
As I said, swarming is a good thing, no question about that. My point was that there are more important things to do before.

Quote:
As a second point, swarming will spread often requested files over the network.
[...]
3. Swarming technology = make use of the high amout of wasted bandwith + will spread often requested files + balance load + less "busy" servants (more available files)
Here I don't agree if you are talking about caching most requested files. If this is what you say, think that at some time your peer will see 20 GB or more; it is a waste of bandwidth to download a file from other peer just to have a part of it in your cache that seldom will be used. But I'm not sure that this is what you mean here.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old November 14th, 2001
Moak's Avatar
Guest
 
Join Date: September 7th, 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 816
Moak is flying high
Default

Yeah I totaly agree, swarming is far far future.

Before swarming other concepts for reducing traffic are more important IMHO: query chaches, super peers (!) and a substitution for ineffective ping/pongs. This stuff will hopefully dramatically reduce backbone traffic, and e.g. modem users can download with full speed.
Another interesting approach to reduce traffic was not mentioned here so far: Host caches or super peers with a regional toplogy and multicast, to reduce ISP traffic. While gnutella backbone causes huge traffic for ISPs, traffic should not be reduced inside gnutella network only but also for the underlying physical network. Not reducing this huge ISP traffic, means slower network performance and increasing costs for ISPs. This could mean for the enduser (us) increased internet costs or more expensive flat rates.

About your question for caching/swarming most requested files. I don't know how to describe better... hmm. Swarming means to solve one basic problem of gnutella: busy slots and only few people sharing. The problem could be solved by spreading often requested files (NOT seldom queried files) over the network, so downloads will be happen more often and much faster. If you have any further question, just ask here again or meet me on IRC.
It would be interesting if the Limewire developer would describe their plans on swarming. Anyone knows details?

Greets, Moak

PS: Super peers are mentioned in this thread

Last edited by Moak; November 14th, 2001 at 08:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Slow Download Speed, Yet High Speed Internet eclipse838 Download/Upload Problems 1 August 1st, 2006 09:25 AM
Question about download speed; used to higher speed on other apps. AlexNR Download/Upload Problems 0 February 12th, 2006 08:56 PM
Why does it say Downloading from 2 host but the speed is at 0 kb\s? WeZeL Download/Upload Problems 1 October 1st, 2003 08:27 PM
high speed modem, slow speed download Unregistered Connection Problems 1 May 30th, 2002 07:07 AM
My Host Speed peguido General Discussion 2 July 3rd, 2001 04:01 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

Copyright © 2020 Gnutella Forums.
All Rights Reserved.