OpenSource P2P Net Discussion Thread
 

Please discuss and comment here, please post your IP address to the thread
"OpenSource P2P Net Info and IP posts"
http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...?threadid=9403

Respectfully, I don't understand why you are trashing on this when it's only a day old. I spent the time to modify, test and re-compile Gnucleus to do this. I took the time to set up a web site with docs to give it distribution. I posted a patch to Swabby so he can mod Gnucleus.
I am busy figuring out a new way to do a host cache on my web site and will have to spend the time making Gnucleus connect to it.
I don't see how the "GnutellaDev Community" will stop the commercialization of Gnutella. We have to move off of it because the commercial interests won't.
Don't you consider me as a part of that Community? Is there a chance I can program in C++ ? Have a little respect please.
This is your chance to get rid of the greed on Gnutella, don't blow it.
If the "GnutellaDev Community" adds the ability in their clients to do this, the OpenSource P2P Net will give them a place to go and it has a rule to keep greed off.
Why not support this and the new GnutellaDev IRC channel at the same time? Where's your node?
Until the developers change and release new versions, this modified one will do.
Did you read the previous posts about this? It explains why this is needed in more detail.
I am happy the developers are off of the_gdf, now they need to move off of commercialized Gnutella.
Gnutella can be a protocol name, not a network. I don't see a need to throw out a perfectly good protocol at this point, and the existing code that works so well.
This is your chance to really do something about the greed that has slipped in.
It's easier than setting up and running a IRC client! And you can run both! Plus right now the bandwidth is nil so jump on board!

Please use something more helpful than OPENSOURCE CONNECT
 

I think it's a great idea, but your headers should give some sort of helpful ID.

This is just general good network behaviou.

Instead of OPENSOURCE CONNECT why not .. well just about anything

OPENGNUTELLA CONNECT

CONNECT FREEGNUTELLA

whatever, just make it informative.

This should take off
 

This should take off, because there are SO MANY gnutella users, and the gnutella network has the limited horizon, which means even if I am on the 'real' gnutella network, I can actually only search a small subset of all users.

So to get comparable performance on this network (ignoring performance hitches caused by anticompetitive commercial clients!) we only need to <I>convert</I> a small subset of the 'real' gnutella users to opensource p2p.

It looks like the changes should be real easy to implement - I'm not a C programmer, but I think I can hack gtk-gnutella tonight when I get home!

If I succeed, I'll post some source somewhere.

Use me as a static host cache!!
24.234.19.159:6347
This is a static IP and should be good for a long time!
I put it on an old computer so I never will turn it off except if it crashes.
About 1500 files on there too.

I show 45 Gigabytes available now

Bears on the prowl?
 

What the .. !

I see quite a few bears in my search results. What's going on?

If someone has hacked a bear to connect to opensource P2P, they better bloody well have ahcked out it's preferential treatment to other bears!

Own up! Own up, I say!

Limes too
 

Do limey's prefer limeys?

Re: Bears on the prowl?
 

Sounds like the only thing that this modification blocked was the ability for bs users to download from you.

Congratulations, you are now a proud freeloader off, not the people who made bs, but users just like you.

Sorry, one step at a time, the client isn't fully blocking yet. Took long enough to set all this up to get it started. It's not a big problem right now. Just roll with it and keep posting those IPs, it gets better from here!

New project site at Sourceforge! "Official" home page
http://opensourcep2p.sourceforge.net/

Project page is
http://sourceforge.net/projects/opensourcep2p/

Thanks for participating in the new OpenSource P2P Net!

Note: If you lose all connections, type a IP from the forum into the "Connections Advanced" box and click "Add". Once you type the IP in it will stay in the little box and you can just click "Add" again if you lose it again. Stick with it!

So you came on here misrepresenting what your client was doing with the intention of getting people to freeload on the gnutella network. Does that about sum it up?

sooner or later someone leaches something from someone else, bearshare leached off gnutella .56 to get started then limewire then the rest
napster leached off the recording artists, then kazza then morpheus
the difference is bearshare, limewire and the rest made bucks from it all
whenever political change happens it raises the worst in people, and a lot of nit picking
change is hard to accept

I think not!

But if you really want to freeload from the clients, this isn´t much better what they are doing! So if you think you need changes block them totally not only in one way - now you can accept YOUR change!

Morgwen

Could this be why there's lots of BS, LW, MRPH etc clients?
 

Could this be why there's lots of BS, LW, MRPH etc clients?

The hostcache(s) is/are polluted by ordinary gnutella clients.

This is because people running opensource p2p were previously running gnutella, and are targetted by pings from gnutella clients who have their ip and port number from say yesterday.

The solution is for EVERY user of opensource to ensure that they use a different port number than they used for gnutella.

And I guess it means starting a new fresh hostcache from scratch - it won't just evolve to lost these clients, I think.

But I'm not sure if this is right. If these are gnutella clients, they are gnutella clients which don't discriminate against clients with incorrect handshake IDs.

Does this make sense? Or are there just a whole lot of people who've hacked their LW, BS etc clients?

How do I use telnet (or wget or something) to grab a connect id from an IP?

Re: Could this be why there's lots of BS, LW, MRPH etc clients?
 

You can use a different port of course but you are still connected with Gnutella or do you think only because you changed the port you have a new net?

Morgwen

let me get this straight anyone can download this client and connect and everyone that posted a IP so far has files shared and you call this freeloading? what about the people who freeload off of us by selling us ads using our own computer time? are you upset at them? did they give you computer time or money back in return? no the software isn't payback when you can get it for free elsewhere. are the new morpheus people shring back? how do you know? all I got so far is file sucking like mad since they came on you think these people never saw a avi or mpeg file in their life. all I get back from them is old dusty mp3 files that are everywhere already. who says you can't get a file from this new network? did you read the source code? all I see is modified connect strings and those aint used to down/upload, heck you can use a browser it dont use those connect strings. and who says they are freeloading if they download from open source clients? dont users have a choice?

If there was ever a client that should be blocked from gnutella this is the one. Yeah, we all know bs and lw prefer bs and lw nodes, but at least they haven't targeted specific clients to "leech only" from. The people who get screwed in this situation are the end users.

So take your client elsewhere, build your own network, and stop trying to do damage the gnutella network.

(And to reiterate what morg has said: Just because you use a different port does not mean you are using a different network! There are already plenty of us out there that run gnutella clients on ports other than 6346 or 6347.)

1.) How do you know they all have files shared?
2.) It is freeloading off of those people that are blocked from downloading but not uploading.
If they "sold" you something then you got something in return. Besides, look at the top of your screen. Nice banner ad huh? Maybe you shouldn't even be here considering your argument.
Nope.
No, they gave me software.
You do not get them same software for free elsewhere, unless of course you're stealing it. You can get different software that performs similar functions which may or may not suit your tastes.
I'm willing to bet that at least some of them are.
Educated guess... and I download from them.
Did you ever use the old Morpheus? You could find tons of avi and mpeg files there. Do you really think that those just disappeared?
What new network? This isn't a new network, it is a client seeking to do damage to the existing network for its own gain.
Didn't need to read the source code, the guy who made this already admitted to one way blocking.
Whether or not the client side applications are open source has no bearing on freeloading from the network.
Users absolutely have a choice. They have the right to choose whichever client they like (even if it is bs or lw) and they shouldn't be punished for it.

The only people that need "punishing" are those actively trying to damage the network.

So I say, get out. You want your own network then put some effort into making it. Don't just sit here and leech off people because their politics don't match your own.

Be constructive or ***
 

If you have comments, please make them constyructive.

Do not simply say 'you are doing it wrong' if you can't point out where we are wrong.

**** ***.

I have a constuctive comment. You are in the wrong place, find a new home.

If you claim this is a different network then what are you doing posting this on a forum dedicated to the gnutella network? Shouldn't you find someplace else for your rhetoric?

make up your mind
 

I dunno, you guys just can't agree ...

one minute we're a new protocol, the next minute we're not ..

are you two trolls?

Either way it has no place on gnutella.

1) If you are a new network then stop trying to freeload off gnutella.

2) If you are not a new network then you are intentionally attacking other gnutella clients and damaging the network. Also not very welcome here.

heh?
 

what?

what are you talking about?

Re: make up your mind
 

The only troll I see here are you!

This "open source net" isn´t a new protocol - yes if you want to change something you should write a new one! But blocking other clients is stupid! You have the free choice which client you use, no one force you to use lw or bear!

Yes some of us trying to change somethin in a constructive way, not in a destrcutive way! Think about it...

If you have to say something do it without your flames - next time I delete your post!

Morgwen

Because I connected to them, same as any other client. Please read the Gnutella protocol specs.
No it's not, get your facts straight, look at the posted patch file and read the Gnutella protocol specs to see how you can still upload from them. I get uploads from all those other clients right now all the time, mostly morpheus users. I don't know what will happen when blocking is put in but I am sure it will be both ways and it isn't that hard to do.
You get nothing in return, that's the point. Did you read any of the other posts here about this? You are trying to make your argument look good with nonsense. Are you one of those people who make a profit from people sharing files and are going to get cut off? Now I see your motivation!
Gnucleus is free and has all the new features. Again you make no sense.
What gain? Isn't that the point, there is no gain! Please go read some posts and understand what is going on here before you post.
There is no blocking right now! You are getting upset over nothing. Go read the patch, go read some code, that is the problem, you don't want to read anything just trying to cause trouble.
Clustering is damaging the network, spyware is damaging the network, look at the bad press Morpheus caused against the network because of them spying! You are being punished by them!
But this is what we are saying to BS, LW and others, get your own network, but they won't. So what's new?

I suspect that you are one of those people who will lose money if this becomes popular. Is your stock going to go down?

Another example of greed (from slashdot)

Bandwidth Shortage And The Telephone Company

Posted by timothy on Thursday March 21, @08:00PM
from the companies-like-to-make-money dept.
FasterThanLight writes: "This article from USA Today regarding (non)usage of existing fiber and its
impact on bandwidth in the semi-near future ... more doom and gloom. Why? Greed, of and by the
(surprise, surprise) large telcos." Remember, this story is about a predicted shortage, not a current
shortage.
--------
You let them slip in and then you get screwed every time. Government does the same thing. They found out they have a golden goose via bandwidth and will suck it for everything they can get. If new technology comes out that increases your bandwidth they will suppress it and dole it out in small steps all the while you pay big $$ for little bandwidth. How can you stop this? Greed sucks!

Morgwen, I thought you of all people would be the first to jump on this and run a node, so I don't understand.
So let's talk about your ideas on how to stop the greed and commercialism on Gnutella.
People have been whining and complaining about adware, spyware, spy packets and greed for more than a year now and nothing has been done. Those companies are pushing farther and farther the things that people will stand for.
This is what they do, they creep in a little at a time. Nip it in the bud!
Talk is cheap, at least this is actually doing something about it right now today and it's real.
Just the threat of this will make commercial interests think twice before screwing people over.
I don't see how you can stop them without blocking them. They won't leave and create their own network because they will lose $$ that way, and lose their back up plan (the free client "outsiders" surrounding their private networks).
If most free clients let the user block by choice, and places like this forum post lists of commercial clients, that may keep things in check, but is it enough?
And what is so wrong with free open source clients sharing files with other free open source clients on the "other" network? If full blocking is added, free clients will be able to share both ways as far as I can tell.
Think about this and come up with a reasonable real world solution we can implement today, right now. I will gladly do the coding of any program changes for your idea.

Please add 'last changed' info to P2P web site
 

Anonnn,

please add last-changed info to the top of the website

<A HREF="http://opensourcep2p.sourceforge.net/">http://opensourcep2p.sourceforge.net/</A>

<A HREF="http://snow.prohosting.com/openp2p/">http://snow.prohosting.com/openp2p/</A>

It is too much information on one page to easily check for changes.

Unregistered

I don't understand the point
 

What are you trying to do? have a network that only uploads to each other, like fasttrack?

How is Limewire not open source? I cvs Limewire at Limewire.org all the time. I also am a Pro user, because I want to support their efforts and bandwidth costs. $8.50 isn't that much money, and besides, they are improving the network.Too cheap for that? clean limewire (if they didn't become firewire, lol) might be back.

I also cvs Gnucleus , and try to make constructive suggestions for improvement in that client also. Swabby was totally professional when morpheus grabbed his code for commercial gain. Do you see him typing a bunch of negative shi t about them? No, and you probably won't either. He just keeps improving his client, and Ultrapeers is on his todo list, along with other cool stuff.

GodX fixed his Peerahna client so that it works on NT when I reported that bug. His client isn't open source, are you going to block it? Or Xolox?Gnotella?

In short, what you are doing is worse than what BS and LW are doing, since they are adding something to the experience.

If you really have such a problem with people getting paid for their work then make something better then what they have to offer and put it out there. Blocking them is just a childish way of lashing out because you can't make something that competes.

being objective --- seems to me that 20 nodes would do it and 100 would be critical mass 'cause horizon is never that far and most files I see are the same and kaza is closed and it not hurt'n gnutella and 100 nodes don't be missed so go for it

Watch out for the Vinnie factor. Something like this will focus him.

He has gone back in his cave and is probably working on something to assure his market share.

Just my 2 cents.

Well, 2 days and no answer from Morgwen.
I see no other method but to use blocking to stop the greed before it takes over like everything else commercial. Talk is over it's time to do something.

My idea is to create a new protocol with terms that don´t allow adware! But the problem is that they are still many developers who don´t care! A few do!

Perhaps you want to visit us!

http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...&threadid=5917

Morgwen

Sounds like you're feeling a little ****.

Isn't that the same thing as OpenSource P2P? And it exists now, no talk, no waiting for "developers". What are you waiting for?

Gnutella is dead, it was killed by commercialism. There are only three networks for you to get on:

1. OpenSource P2P Net
2. LimeWire Net
3. BearShare Net

Is that all you can come up with? Sheesh... Deal with emotions and you get everywhere. Lose any money lately? How's your P2P stock price doing?

Gnutella is what it is today by commerical programs. In fact "unregistered" gnutella would probably be dead today if it werent for commerical programs gnutella would be dead.. Before the first real commerical programs the total number of hosts on gnutella was around 2500 hosts for the entire network... Almost all the protocol proposals come from commerical companies or interests.

Look you can bitch and complain all you want about spyware, adware and etc. But some programs on the network arent commerical like gnucleus and no one is forcing you to use a commerical program..

If you dont like commerical programs then dont use them its that simple. People are not stupid others will use whatever program they want to. No one is forcing you to use a specific program why should you be allowed to tell others what programs they "should" be using..

As for the fact that bearshare and limewire clump there programs together what does that matter, they arent cut off from gnutella you can still download off of them and if you dont use them then it really shouldnt matter. They dont clump 100% together either.. Dont like it then have the noncommerical programs become better and compete with the commerical ones to get users to use them, not flame commerical programs and create new networks which doesnt solve anything..

Adware doesnt make host connection, nor does it make downloads or uploads slower.. In fact it has nothing to do with the protocol at all. Its not a gnutella issue , its a personal preference.

I think that people are overreacting and trying to come up with solutions to a problem that doesnt exist and doesnt affect the network.

Note: I expect to get flamed and called immature lame insults but i dont care.. If some want to blame me and pass off my posts with some excuse then all i can say is good luck with the 2nd gnutella network the old one will still be here and will stay for a long time.

BS is not helping Gnutella, BS helps only BS and claims to help Gnutella.

Finger pointing and accusations again accomplish nothing, really strays from the topic and in the end is really what doesnt help gnutella.

Why do you assume im talking about just one servent? There are many different programs and other outside commerical interests and others working together to improve the network. Its up to each indivdual developer to improve there own program. How developers go about doing that is really there choice because its their program and a open network.

Gnutella shouldnt be another fasttrack where every program does the same exact thing they just have different names/logos...

Yea, I remember when a certain commercial developer starting with a "V" screwed up his code and because of his total control over his program forced everyone to upgrade then that took down a big part of the existing network and people started to say "Gnutella can't scale", that's how that got started.
Then Napster shut down, you think that might have been a factor in growth?
Gnutella was able to scale just fine, as it does now. Morpheus isn't using any "Ultrapeers" and seems to be doing fine with 200,000+ nodes. So Gnutella would be just about as big as it is today without the help of greed leeching off our resources and spaming us with ads and spyware.
You see, these people can't seem to stop themselves, they need to make a buck or lose their jobs. So they spam, spam, spam.
Protocol proposals came from everyone invloved, not just the commercial interests. Greed prevented some from getting used because it might not be in the best interest of profit, or controling the network/market share.

Besides, the size of the network doesn't matter after a few hundred nodes, it's the attitude of those who share. If people know their efforts arn't going to make thrid parties rich they might want to put more work into providing new and better quality content. Others may join in to add more features to the code. I don't use them but I also don't want to contribute my computer time or network resources that I pay for to third party commercial interests' pockets. I just want a choice not to.

Distributung Bearshare propaganda and tell everyone to shut up who sees the commercial aggresive/destructive aspects, really strays from the topic and in the end is really what doesnt help gnutella.

Not, Vinnie sees Gnutella since month as his own proprietary battlegound where he behaves aggresive and with lies against opponents.

Only your opinion, a common protocol is what you fear, where every client is equal and lives in fair competition. Also Fasttrack had a better technology for months, learn from it, don't bitch against it. Oh I forgit Vinnie doesn't own Fasttrack, so it must be bad... yes we worship Vinnie. May I send him chocolates and cookies to thank him for his holly work?

People were saying gnutella couldnt scale before Bearshare & limwiere were even out.. Keep in mind that the network has changed from when all the gnutella cant scale papers were coming out.

I doubt with the wide prescence of web gnutella search engines that the network was "scaling fine" also the network isnt scaling great today. Many users are reporting connection problems and problems with downloads, uploads and other network problems. If it was truely scaling great then users wouldnt have problems connecting..

As for proposals many of them were made by commerical interest and the best ones at that time were chosen if you dont like which one was chosen then you should have been at the gdf when it was being discussed or it could always change in the future. And again its a OPEN NETWORK meaning that no one really forced to do anything, but remember that goes both ways... If you wanted too you could try to force an standard on the rest of the network but without support from other developers its unlikely that it would be successful.

Your not helping fund other programs you didnt install it, you dont have ads or whatever. Whatever benifit you provide them by staying on the network they provide you with the exact same.. Unless your saying you dont download off any commerical gnutella programs users?

Moak believe it or not this has nothing to do with bearshare.. Or vinnie because for the simple fact:

IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!
IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!
IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!
IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!
IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!
IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!

Now that i said it enough times maybe it got into your head.. Really you should quit bashing programs and making a fool of yourself with posts like the one you've made just now..

As for fasttrack i was critizing the organization of the network, not the protocol they are two different things and since this thread is more of a thread about the organization not the protocol so your comment doesnt mean anything..

If you want to go bitch about bearshare then please quit wasting mine and others time and do it in another thread.

Sephiroth!

Moak can say his opinion in his thread here as you can too - so if you think it is wasted time don´t reply!

BUT stop your whining about accusations, other people have other opinions - IF YOU WANT THAT OTHER RESPECT YOUR OPINION START WITH RESPECTING THEIR FIRST!

And don´t start with I don´t like ALL bearshare users and they are not welcome here etc.

I don´t like YOU!

And I don´t mean your opinion or what you say, I mean the way how do you say it!

The people who read more of your post know what I mean!

STOP WASTING OUR TIME!

Morgwen

Nice and friendly today? This thread is because of companies like Bearshare are destroying free Gnutella. I haven't seen any open source client (beside Limewire) comming with selfish marketing, spyware, proprietary extensions, clustering, blocking or disadvantaging other clients, trying to control and takeover a big market share. Only commercial clients do, only Bearshare and Limewire (okay and Morpheus comes with Spyware too).

So, I have to speak out the word Bearshare, when you tell us how great commercials programs are for Gnutella (allegedly the only hope). But in reality I see those companies destryoing free Gnutella, step by step turning Gnutella into a one/two vendor network on purpose. The problem is not closed sourced software or making money with a protocol. I like money too. :-) The problem is the unacceptable politics of some vendors and some of us will not contribute rescources and knowledge to the benefit of a single vendor.

My idea of a Gnutella network is different, fair, friendly, efficient and in peacefull cooperation, where the benefit of a better network will be for every client. Greets, Moak

Its an OPEN PROTOCOL.. What you described is impossible other propierty networks have basically took parts out of gnutella and if programs like bearshare and limewired wanted to do that as you say then they would have created atheir own propierty network long ago.

Also i would like to point out that you are not qualified nor do you have the right to telll me and the hundred of thousands of other gnutella users whats our best interest. Users are not stupid and need to be told what to do especially one person. Moak you thankfully do not represent the opinions of users nor do you represent the opinions of developers as illustrated when you flamed the GDF last month.

Morgwen again if you want to flame me and make personal remarks do it in a different thread. I dont care you go ahead and post whatever crap you want to in the end i think that it really show yours and moak's because he does it too true character...

I think the idea by both of you of a Socialist-type structured gnutella is dumb and a horrible idea and the current system which is more like a market system where programs compete with each other to draw users benifits users and work together for there best mutual benifit makes more sense and has worked good so far. The good programs and the good proposals will survive, the bad ones wont. The users choose which ones survive and which ones fail thats the "invisible hand" at work..

Under your plan developers would lose freedom, users would not benifit, and the network would either be ruled by the strict standard set in place by a few which would contain things that it should like "anti-freeloading" and etc. or the network would become increasing confusing and needlessly complicated as there are multiple duplicate "standards" that do the same thing but are all different and incompatible.

In the end your idea takes freedom away from developers and away from users.. And isnt needed because the current system is working pretty good..

Ah yes?

And our point is what?

And again you are talking about flaming... where did I flame?

I said I don´t like you as you did too... hmm... if you say it its an OPINION... then I say it its FLAMING!

And YOU don´t flame???

I think you are telling as usual hot air, many words and NO sense!

You can ONLY discuss with people who say you are right - never with people which don´t agree...

you start to whine and say they flame on you instead of defending your position and prove that you are right with links etc. this my friend is in my eyes BITCHING!

And before you start to whine again I am talking about ALL of our discussions not this here - I don´t want to discuss with you anymore...

you have NO arguements!

Morgwen

Whatever excuse you have to tell yourself.. You come and out of no where post that im "bitching" and other personal crap like you dont like me which has nothing to do with this thread and are all personal remarks against me call it whatever you want. Either way i dont care..

I dont believe that im the one who needs to really prove anything.. Your the ones wanting such radical and unneeded change and therefore should provide any proof on how great gnutella would be if your "ideas" were put into place. Im the one saying that gnutella is doing well the way it is. If you want some gnutella links then maybe you could go to the main site gnutelliums...

My posts make perfect sense your the only one who complains that they are "hot air" and that you dont understand them..

I was having a nice discussion with "unregistered" before you and moak came along...

If you dont want to "discuss" anything with me then why did you post in this thread in the first place?

Isn't that the definition of what's happenig today with Gnutella, Vinnie and GDF?

Indeed, what you describe comes close to my motivation to stop with Gnutella: it's still far behind technology, selfish commercialization make it even more unattractive. I like this thread, because I see some others care about a fair Gnutella. Just a few ppl yet... but the shine of a little light is better than to swear about darkness.

:) Moak

Because you said to Moak that he waste your time - and I told you if somebody waste your time DON`T REPLY!

YOU ARE NOT NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO IS ALLOWED TO USE THIS FORUM HERE!

quote:
My posts make perfect sense your the only one who complains that they are "hot air" and that you dont understand them..


REALLY? I read AT LEAST 20 other posts where other users wrote similar things... I think you are the only one who thinks your post make sense...


quote:
I dont believe that im the one who needs to really prove anything..

As you never have proven something this is what I mean HOT AIR!


quote:
Your the ones wanting such radical and unneeded change and therefore should provide any proof on how great gnutella would be if your "ideas" were put into place


What do you know about MY IDEAS? Do you think the opinion from this unregistered user is my opinion? You should read my threads first!


quote:
You come and out of no where post that im "bitching"


Ah yes... you never coment my post? You never called me a troll? You are polite? You didn´t say that Moak is bitching? You never made comments about Moaks or mine ideas without proven your IDEAS?


quote:
I was having a nice discussion with "unregistered" before you and moak came along...


Yes like me... before you came and tell us how GREAT GNUTELLA IS, especially OUR SUPER COMMERCIAL POWER CLIENTS!

Morgwen

PS: I was one of the unregistered you enjoyed to talk.