OpenSource P2P Net Discussion Thread

[Sephiroth]

People were saying gnutella couldnt scale before Bearshare & limwiere were even out.. Keep in mind that the network has changed from when all the gnutella cant scale papers were coming out.

I doubt with the wide prescence of web gnutella search engines that the network was "scaling fine" also the network isnt scaling great today. Many users are reporting connection problems and problems with downloads, uploads and other network problems. If it was truely scaling great then users wouldnt have problems connecting..

As for proposals many of them were made by commerical interest and the best ones at that time were chosen if you dont like which one was chosen then you should have been at the gdf when it was being discussed or it could always change in the future. And again its a OPEN NETWORK meaning that no one really forced to do anything, but remember that goes both ways... If you wanted too you could try to force an standard on the rest of the network but without support from other developers its unlikely that it would be successful.

Your not helping fund other programs you didnt install it, you dont have ads or whatever. Whatever benifit you provide them by staying on the network they provide you with the exact same.. Unless your saying you dont download off any commerical gnutella programs users?

Originally posted by Unregistered
Yea, I remember when a certain commercial developer starting with a "V" screwed up his code and because of his total control over his program forced everyone to upgrade then that took down a big part of the existing network and people started to say "Gnutella can't scale", that's how that got started.
Then Napster shut down, you think that might have been a factor in growth?
Gnutella was able to scale just fine, as it does now. Morpheus isn't using any "Ultrapeers" and seems to be doing fine with 200,000+ nodes. So Gnutella would be just about as big as it is today without the help of greed leeching off our resources and spaming us with ads and spyware.
You see, these people can't seem to stop themselves, they need to make a buck or lose their jobs. So they spam, spam, spam.
Protocol proposals came from everyone invloved, not just the commercial interests. Greed prevented some from getting used because it might not be in the best interest of profit, or controling the network/market share.

Besides, the size of the network doesn't matter after a few hundred nodes, it's the attitude of those who share. If people know their efforts arn't going to make thrid parties rich they might want to put more work into providing new and better quality content. Others may join in to add more features to the code. I don't use them but I also don't want to contribute my computer time or network resources that I pay for to third party commercial interests' pockets. I just want a choice not to.

[Sephiroth]

Moak believe it or not this has nothing to do with bearshare.. Or vinnie because for the simple fact:

IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!
IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!
IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!
IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!
IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!
IM NOT BEARSHARE AND IM NOT VINNIE!!!

Now that i said it enough times maybe it got into your head.. Really you should quit bashing programs and making a fool of yourself with posts like the one you've made just now..

As for fasttrack i was critizing the organization of the network, not the protocol they are two different things and since this thread is more of a thread about the organization not the protocol so your comment doesnt mean anything..

If you want to go bitch about bearshare then please quit wasting mine and others time and do it in another thread.

Originally posted by Moak

Distributung Bearshare propaganda and tell everyone to shut up who sees the commercial aggresive/destructive aspects, really strays from the topic and in the end is really what doesnt help gnutella.


Not, Vinnie sees Gnutella since month as his own proprietary battlegound where he behaves aggresive and with lies against opponents.


Only your opinion, a common protocol is what you fear, where every client is equal and lives in fair competition. Also Fasttrack had a better technology for months, learn from it, don't bitch against it. Oh I forgit Vinnie doesn't own Fasttrack, so it must be bad... yes we worship Vinnie. May I send him chocolates and cookies to thank him for his holly work?

[Morgwen]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
If you want to go bitch about bearshare then please quit wasting mine and others time and do it in another thread.

Sephiroth!

Moak can say his opinion in his thread here as you can too - so if you think it is wasted time don´t reply!

BUT stop your whining about accusations, other people have other opinions - IF YOU WANT THAT OTHER RESPECT YOUR OPINION START WITH RESPECTING THEIR FIRST!

And don´t start with I don´t like ALL bearshare users and they are not welcome here etc.

I don´t like YOU!

And I don´t mean your opinion or what you say, I mean the way how do you say it!

The people who read more of your post know what I mean!

STOP WASTING OUR TIME!

Morgwen

[Moak]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
If you want to go bitch about bearshare then please quit wasting mine and others time and do it in another thread.

Nice and friendly today? This thread is because of companies like Bearshare are destroying free Gnutella. I haven't seen any open source client (beside Limewire) comming with selfish marketing, spyware, proprietary extensions, clustering, blocking or disadvantaging other clients, trying to control and takeover a big market share. Only commercial clients do, only Bearshare and Limewire (okay and Morpheus comes with Spyware too).

So, I have to speak out the word Bearshare, when you tell us how great commercials programs are for Gnutella (allegedly the only hope). But in reality I see those companies destryoing free Gnutella, step by step turning Gnutella into a one/two vendor network on purpose. The problem is not closed sourced software or making money with a protocol. I like money too. :-) The problem is the unacceptable politics of some vendors and some of us will not contribute rescources and knowledge to the benefit of a single vendor.

My idea of a Gnutella network is different, fair, friendly, efficient and in peacefull cooperation, where the benefit of a better network will be for every client. Greets, Moak

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Moak

But in reality I see those companies destryoing free Gnutella, step by step turning Gnutella into a one/two vendor network on purpose.

My idea of a Gnutella network is different, fair, friendly, efficient and in peacefull cooperation, where the benefit of a better network will be for every client. Greets, Moak

Its an OPEN PROTOCOL.. What you described is impossible other propierty networks have basically took parts out of gnutella and if programs like bearshare and limewired wanted to do that as you say then they would have created atheir own propierty network long ago.

Also i would like to point out that you are not qualified nor do you have the right to telll me and the hundred of thousands of other gnutella users whats our best interest. Users are not stupid and need to be told what to do especially one person. Moak you thankfully do not represent the opinions of users nor do you represent the opinions of developers as illustrated when you flamed the GDF last month.

Morgwen again if you want to flame me and make personal remarks do it in a different thread. I dont care you go ahead and post whatever crap you want to in the end i think that it really show yours and moak's because he does it too true character...

I think the idea by both of you of a Socialist-type structured gnutella is dumb and a horrible idea and the current system which is more like a market system where programs compete with each other to draw users benifits users and work together for there best mutual benifit makes more sense and has worked good so far. The good programs and the good proposals will survive, the bad ones wont. The users choose which ones survive and which ones fail thats the "invisible hand" at work..

Under your plan developers would lose freedom, users would not benifit, and the network would either be ruled by the strict standard set in place by a few which would contain things that it should like "anti-freeloading" and etc. or the network would become increasing confusing and needlessly complicated as there are multiple duplicate "standards" that do the same thing but are all different and incompatible.

In the end your idea takes freedom away from developers and away from users.. And isnt needed because the current system is working pretty good..

[Morgwen]

Originally posted by Sephiroth

Morgwen again if you want to flame me and make personal remarks do it in a different thread. I dont care you go ahead and post whatever crap you want to in the end i think that it really show yours and moak's because he does it too true character...

Ah yes?

And our point is what?

And again you are talking about flaming... where did I flame?

I said I don´t like you as you did too... hmm... if you say it its an OPINION... then I say it its FLAMING!

And YOU don´t flame???

I think you are telling as usual hot air, many words and NO sense!

You can ONLY discuss with people who say you are right - never with people which don´t agree...

you start to whine and say they flame on you instead of defending your position and prove that you are right with links etc. this my friend is in my eyes BITCHING!

And before you start to whine again I am talking about ALL of our discussions not this here - I don´t want to discuss with you anymore...

you have NO arguements!

Morgwen

[Sephiroth]

Whatever excuse you have to tell yourself.. You come and out of no where post that im "bitching" and other personal crap like you dont like me which has nothing to do with this thread and are all personal remarks against me call it whatever you want. Either way i dont care..

I dont believe that im the one who needs to really prove anything.. Your the ones wanting such radical and unneeded change and therefore should provide any proof on how great gnutella would be if your "ideas" were put into place. Im the one saying that gnutella is doing well the way it is. If you want some gnutella links then maybe you could go to the main site gnutelliums...

My posts make perfect sense your the only one who complains that they are "hot air" and that you dont understand them..

I was having a nice discussion with "unregistered" before you and moak came along...

If you dont want to "discuss" anything with me then why did you post in this thread in the first place?

Originally posted by Morgwen


Ah yes?

And our point is what?

And again you are talking about flaming... where did I flame?

I said I don´t like you as you did too... hmm... if you say it its an OPINION... then I say it its FLAMING!

And YOU don´t flame???

I think you are telling as usual hot air, many words and NO sense!

You can ONLY discuss with people who say you are right - never with people which don´t agree...

you start to whine and say they flame on you instead of defending your position and prove that you are right with links etc. this my friend is in my eyes BITCHING!

And before you start to whine again I am talking about ALL of our discussions not this here - I don´t want to discuss with you anymore...

you have NO arguements!

Morgwen

[Moak]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Under your plan developers would lose freedom, users would not benifit, and the network would either be ruled by the strict standard set in place by a few which would contain things that it should like "anti-freeloading" and etc. or the network would become increasing confusing and needlessly complicated as there are multiple duplicate "standards" that do the same thing but are all different and incompatible.

Isn't that the definition of what's happenig today with Gnutella, Vinnie and GDF?

Indeed, what you describe comes close to my motivation to stop with Gnutella: it's still far behind technology, selfish commercialization make it even more unattractive. I like this thread, because I see some others care about a fair Gnutella. Just a few ppl yet... but the shine of a little light is better than to swear about darkness.

Moak

[Morgwen]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
If you dont want to "discuss" anything with me then why did you post in this thread in the first place?

Because you said to Moak that he waste your time - and I told you if somebody waste your time DON`T REPLY!

YOU ARE NOT NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO IS ALLOWED TO USE THIS FORUM HERE!

quote:
My posts make perfect sense your the only one who complains that they are "hot air" and that you dont understand them..


REALLY? I read AT LEAST 20 other posts where other users wrote similar things... I think you are the only one who thinks your post make sense...


quote:
I dont believe that im the one who needs to really prove anything..

As you never have proven something this is what I mean HOT AIR!


quote:
Your the ones wanting such radical and unneeded change and therefore should provide any proof on how great gnutella would be if your "ideas" were put into place


What do you know about MY IDEAS? Do you think the opinion from this unregistered user is my opinion? You should read my threads first!


quote:
You come and out of no where post that im "bitching"


Ah yes... you never coment my post? You never called me a troll? You are polite? You didn´t say that Moak is bitching? You never made comments about Moaks or mine ideas without proven your IDEAS?


quote:
I was having a nice discussion with "unregistered" before you and moak came along...


Yes like me... before you came and tell us how GREAT GNUTELLA IS, especially OUR SUPER COMMERCIAL POWER CLIENTS!

Morgwen

[Moak]

PS: I was one of the unregistered you enjoyed to talk.